Changes to P8ntballer?

[Baca Loco]

Naw

Originally posted by Buddha 3
Baca, what I find funny is that you LOOK like you're sticking to your guns, but when reading through the lines you are actually taking a more temperate stance. You big girl, you're wussing out!
1- Demographics do not automatically mean that it will make for an interesting forum. But let's see if you can make it clearer by you providing us with an example lay out of what you have in mind. Because what you are proposing now, sounds a whole lot different from what you started out shouting.
2- Never said I knew all the answers. But I do at times know what won't work.
3- Never argued with that, did I? If it's tourney related, it should be in tourney. If it's not, it should be someplace else. That's so obvious, that you and I have just wasted prescious parts of our lives by typing in what never should have been typed in.
4- Then what IS the point? I agree, bigger numbers would be nice, but it's only a means, not a goal.
5- Not yet. Let's see what you're talking about first.
6- I agree that 4k isn't a whole lot compared to some other forums, but you seem to agree that most of those forums pale when their contents are compared to this one. And I agree that it's worthwhile to increase the numbers while at the same time maintaining high standards.
The way you are now coming up with what seems to be far more nuanced plans doesn't sound near as bad as what you first blurted out. So like I said, show us the stuff, big boy.

Haven't changed one iota--just offered some more 'explanations' of what I meant in the first place.
1--it's not, new thread might make it easier to follow though.
2--fortunately it's not our call anyway.
3--wait till you see the "plan"
4--of course bigger numbers is a goal, a primary goal
5--OK
6--I'll answer your email here tomorrow sometime.You realize I've halfway got you already 'cus now you're thinking about how to get more peeps in here and that wasn't on your radar two days ago.


Syd--perhaps if you actually read the posts it would be clearer to you. No vibe--I already suggested splitting Tourney (and modifying the focus and content). No content dilution--in fact, the opposite. With current content--in part--moved to another Forum.

So which members or what percentage of current members are "quality" now? It ain't all gold now and so what? But more numbers will certainly unearth a few more nuggets.

IF you had READ the posts you might have noted this line started with me responding to Rancid early on. You might have also noted that I directly and plainly stated these were my views and I have absolutely NO POWER to make them happen. I simply went beyond what's good and what's bad into what might make it better. I feel the love.

 

[Baca Loco]

War & Peace Redux

OK, kids. Here's the dealio.
It's my view that the forums are not as inviting as they might be and the principle reason is the domination of Brit posters. Now before the outraged replies start and everyone keeps flinging the odd non-Brit poster in my face (myself included) the truth is the mods could probably name, and I do mean name, most of the regular non-Brit posters in the forums and that cannot be taken as truly reflecting an international forum. (It is however the closest thing there is to an international forum.)
Despite my tongue-in-cheek "battles" with various Brits I have no problem with lots of Brit posters and personally enjoy the forums as is myself. But it isn't in the long term best interest of the forums or the website's purpose as an adjunct to, and gateway for, the magazine to more or less stay the same.
Now perhaps you'd say it's growing and improving and you'd be right but is slow good enough? I think it could be, and should be, faster. Particluarly when there are sites out there with much less content and less interesting forum activity with 10's of thousands of members. Many of those sites do it with massive lists of fragmented forums for virtually every pball product made and tournament series running and P8ntballer has clearly chosen not to go that way--and that's a good thing. So, the question becomes how to get more folks involved.
My suggestion is a modest modification of the Forums in the hopes of making them generally more inviting to newcomers. (I have no concerns whatsoever for who then chooses to participate or any concerns over the "standards" of the forums being overrun with barbarians since I don't recall any previous access test the rest of us had to pass to get in.)
Roughly, 1) split Tournament in N. America Tournament Forum and World Tournament Forum. 2) re-focus Speak Your Brains as the "exclusively pball content" Forum. 3) add Mindless Blather Forum for whatever. 4) look into dividing Classified Forum into U.S. and World Classified Forum(s).
Explanations--1) re-open up the acceptable content for Tourney Forum(s) to include anything tourney related; questions, reports, event promos, etc. 2) Speak Your Brains would become the "thoughful" forum for exclusively pball related discussions both serious and light-hearted but kept strictly to pball topics. 3) Mindless Blather gives folks a generic place to shoot the breeze and keeps the other forums uncluttered. 4) an obvious category change that recognizes the unliklihood of most U.S.posters buying across an ocean or two.
Purpose--two broad categories that attract lots of general interest are generic tourney postings of info and classifieds for buying and selling gear so the goal is to provide more specific general interest forums to get people interacting. The other changes ensure both a dedicated pball forum and a relaxed easy going forum so the occasions of overlap and some tension that exists periodically now won't in the future (with appropriate modd'ing).
Moderation--six month stickies in ALL forums explaining the new arrangement, a broad outline of the acceptable and unacceptable (ie; strict enforcement in new 'Speak' and gentler reminders in other forums to avoid private conversations--use your PM option)

Alright, there it is. You don't like, fine. Will it work? Don't know but if you've got a better idea let's hear it.

PS--for those who see this as a less than veiled attempt to primarily draw in more Americans alter the Tourney and Classified forums into (3) categories: N. America, Europe, World. Do a little blurb in the mag noting the changes for two or three consecutive months and see what happens.

 

[Beaker]

Baca,

As I've posted I've got to disagree. Just because a n other forum has 10's of thousands of poster doesn't actaually mean there are really more people "involved".

I never go into the US forums on pbnation, paintballcity etc purely because while there might be one or 2 posts that are worth reading, there are a lot more that I can't be bothered to wade through. I only bookmark the direct links into the forums I read as i don't really care for the rest. If you spilt Tourney I feel the same thing would happen. It's purely because Tourney is all encompasing that I feel it get's such "good" posts as people know it's a one-stop-shop.

A little straw poll - I wonder how many people here have bookmarked the main page rather than "their" forum.

I do agree with splitting SYB's into a Paintball talk and Mindless drivel

I think splitting Classfieds isn't neccessary either as long as posters are told to put their location in the post.

To be frank I think the end result of your changes would be a bad idea and lead to a fragmentation of the forums and those that post. I probably wont be bothering trawling through lots of forums to find what I want, may be follow techroom and that's it.

 

[Piper]

How did this happen?

I have just spent 2 hours reading all your posts and it seems this has turned into Mod v Mod thread!

Personally (not that my opion is worth anything!), split the tourney section up a bit, like maybe USA and European. Then people can go to the part that is relivant to them.

Also do split speak your brains, I have lost count of the amount of posts I have deleted this week that have nothing to do with Paintball, or moved cos they should have been somewhere else.

Just my very small thought on it all. Now I will get my coat and leave.

Piper

 

[Buddha 3]

Naw

Originally posted by Baca Loco
Haven't changed one iota--just offered some more 'explanations' of what I meant in the first place.
1--it's not, new thread might make it easier to follow though.
2--fortunately it's not our call anyway.
3--wait till you see the "plan"
4--of course bigger numbers is a goal, a primary goal
5--OK
6--I'll answer your email here tomorrow sometime.You realize I've halfway got you already 'cus now you're thinking about how to get more peeps in here and that wasn't on your radar two days ago.


Syd--perhaps if you actually read the posts it would be clearer to you. No vibe--I already suggested splitting Tourney (and modifying the focus and content). No content dilution--in fact, the opposite. With current content--in part--moved to another Forum.

So which members or what percentage of current members are "quality" now? It ain't all gold now and so what? But more numbers will certainly unearth a few more nuggets.

IF you had READ the posts you might have noted this line started with me responding to Rancid early on. You might have also noted that I directly and plainly stated these were my views and I have absolutely NO POWER to make them happen. I simply went beyond what's good and what's bad into what might make it better. I feel the love.

1- Then you have voiced your visions in a very unclear way. Seems nobody understood what you meant.
2- Agreed 100% and then some.
3- Can't wait.
4- You are obviously insane. This site is a portal to the magazine, a businesscard if you will. Ideally, it will generate a higher number of subs, by it's ever increasing traffic. Therefore, the number of people on these forums is a means, not a goal. Sorry, no points for you on this one.
5- Yay!
6- You have only aroused my curiosity so far. It's not you that made me think about increasing traffic. Don't go stealing other people's thunder.

I'll assume that the entire final part of your post was meant for Syd.

 

[Buddha 3]

War & Peace Redux

Originally posted by Baca Loco
OK, kids. Here's the dealio.
1- It's my view that the forums are not as inviting as they might be and the principle reason is the domination of Brit posters. Now before the outraged replies start and everyone keeps flinging the odd non-Brit poster in my face (myself included) the truth is the mods could probably name, and I do mean name, most of the regular non-Brit posters in the forums and that cannot be taken as truly reflecting an international forum. (It is however the closest thing there is to an international forum.)
Despite my tongue-in-cheek "battles" with various Brits I have no problem with lots of Brit posters and personally enjoy the forums as is myself. But it isn't in the long term best interest of the forums or the website's purpose as an adjunct to, and gateway for, the magazine to more or less stay the same.
2- Now perhaps you'd say it's growing and improving and you'd be right but is slow good enough? I think it could be, and should be, faster. Particluarly when there are sites out there with much less content and less interesting forum activity with 10's of thousands of members. Many of those sites do it with massive lists of fragmented forums for virtually every pball product made and tournament series running and P8ntballer has clearly chosen not to go that way--and that's a good thing. So, the question becomes how to get more folks involved.
3- My suggestion is a modest modification of the Forums in the hopes of making them generally more inviting to newcomers. (I have no concerns whatsoever for who then chooses to participate or any concerns over the "standards" of the forums being overrun with barbarians since I don't recall any previous access test the rest of us had to pass to get in.)
Roughly, 1) split Tournament in N. America Tournament Forum and World Tournament Forum. 2) re-focus Speak Your Brains as the "exclusively pball content" Forum. 3) add Mindless Blather Forum for whatever. 4) look into dividing Classified Forum into U.S. and World Classified Forum(s).
Explanations--1) re-open up the acceptable content for Tourney Forum(s) to include anything tourney related; questions, reports, event promos, etc. 2) Speak Your Brains would become the "thoughful" forum for exclusively pball related discussions both serious and light-hearted but kept strictly to pball topics. 3) Mindless Blather gives folks a generic place to shoot the breeze and keeps the other forums uncluttered. 4) an obvious category change that recognizes the unliklihood of most U.S.posters buying across an ocean or two.
Purpose--two broad categories that attract lots of general interest are generic tourney postings of info and classifieds for buying and selling gear so the goal is to provide more specific general interest forums to get people interacting. The other changes ensure both a dedicated pball forum and a relaxed easy going forum so the occasions of overlap and some tension that exists periodically now won't in the future (with appropriate modd'ing).
Moderation--six month stickies in ALL forums explaining the new arrangement, a broad outline of the acceptable and unacceptable (ie; strict enforcement in new 'Speak' and gentler reminders in other forums to avoid private conversations--use your PM option)

Alright, there it is. You don't like, fine. Will it work? Don't know but if you've got a better idea let's hear it.

PS--for those who see this as a less than veiled attempt to primarily draw in more Americans alter the Tourney and Classified forums into (3) categories: N. America, Europe, World. Do a little blurb in the mag noting the changes for two or three consecutive months and see what happens.

1- Agreed.
2- Agreed.
3- I agree that it can be a good thing to make a split in Brains. Personally, I'd rather see all non paintball posts get booted off, but that's just me. It seems the "unwashed masses" enjoy them, so who am I to argue? I can also see what you mean with the split in classifieds, although Beaker's plan will work just as well. Just make sure you put the country in the title, et voila!
But, as you are aware, it is the split in tournament that I don't agree with. It WILL dilute the whole forum. Exactly in the way Beaker described. I got interested in the US politics and scheming thanks to these forums. But I couldn't be bothered to browse through piles of crap that doesn't concern me, in order to find the view gems that interest me.

You want to know what I think? The reason some of the other forums have such high numbers of people posting, is because that's the only thing there is to the website. Go to pbnation, and all you see is forums. Yet go to p8ntballer, and there's a veritable heap of info to absorb (I have not added the forums to my list of favorites, I always go here through the front page, just to see if there's any news. I suggest everybody should do the same). And that's good. The reason the forums might not draw the crowds that they could draw, is because the link to it is small and tucked away in the corner. Slap a bigger link on the front page, and you will see increased traffic. It works with everything else, just display that which you want to promote more promonently and people will take notice.

 

[Wadidiz]

It seem like I've got to pull together whatever persuasive powers I may have to save this forum!

I confess that I haven't read all the most recent posts in detail but allow me to put in a couple of observations.

I used to check a lot of the other PB sites, PBnation, 247, Smacktalk among others. Some have very similar functionalities to this one. But what inhibits me from even having a look at some of the others is the fact that I have to click through so many layers. Which should I look at? General PB, general tourney, NPPL, PSP, X-Ball, or Millennium, etc. etc?

If I want to discuss tournament reffing and I mainly want to get feedback and discussion going among serious players which one do I choose? Same thing if we divide US from others in the world.

The world is already divided enough. Let's don't make it even more so. This site has so much going for it. Don't take away one of the more important of the many things that make it so good.

Steve

PS. When I do post on some of the other fora I often refer to discussions going on here, often including links. Maybe that contributes to more visits, maybe not.

SM

 

[Beaker]

Hell Baca,
Where would you post about the NPPL if it joins with the Millennium, or Xball if it goes global

If you really really want to split it then the only way I would suggest is
"International" for NPPL/Millennium/Xball
"Regional" for everything else.
But then that's possibly elitist but I think more US posters would go for teh "international" forum.

And I agree - better promotion on main page and the mag would go much further than just splitting a couple of forums.

 

[rancid]

Couple of things - Bud, Baca, 26, Piper etc - As far as I'm concerned it is within your remit/power to change the forums, or at least you are a very significant part of the the process - christ if it wasn't for you guys this forum wouldn't be nearly as good.

We're all agreed that this site has two usps: a) international flavour; b) intelligent discussion.

And we all agree it has one problem: not enough of a) or b)

The worry about splitting tourny is that it wouldn't actually solve the problem, but as Baca says what other ideas do we have. Cos at the moment I don't think anyone is offering an alternative (so, thinking caps on over the weekend).

You know, the latest audited figures for P8 was summat like 70k unique visitors (ok it was round about the world cup time) but only a few hundred post! Is this a problem?

Well not if the other 69k will only post drivel - so what I'm saying is, don't confuse numbers posting with the value of a load of people visiting the site. I don't mind if the forum is exclusive (christ I wish it was) - the focus has got to be (in my opinion) to improve the quality of post and the international focus - and to do that, we may be better off getting rid of people instead of increasing their type (cripes that's offensive).

You know, I've wanted to put little flags on people's details - so the first thing you see is loads of different national flags - however one twist, there's no Union Jack.

So, I guess, I'm agreeing with Manning, and on that bombshell...

 

[Buddha 3]

Originally posted by rancid
Couple of things - Bud, Baca, 26, Piper etc - As far as I'm concerned it is within your remit/power to change the forums, or at least you are a very significant part of the the process - christ if it wasn't for you guys this forum wouldn't be nearly as good.

We're all agreed that this site has two usps: a) international flavour; b) intelligent discussion.

And we all agree it has one problem: not enough of a) or b)

The worry about splitting tourny is that it wouldn't actually solve the problem, but as Baca says what other ideas do we have. Cos at the moment I don't think anyone is offering an alternative (so, thinking caps on over the weekend).

You know, the latest audited figures for P8 was summat like 70k unique visitors (ok it was round about the world cup time) but only a few hundred post! Is this a problem?

Well not if the other 69k will only post drivel - so what I'm saying is, don't confuse numbers posting with the value of a load of people visiting the site. I don't mind if the forum is exclusive (christ I wish it was) - the focus has got to be (in my opinion) to improve the quality of post and the international focus - and to do that, we may be better off getting rid of people instead of increasing their type (cripes that's offensive).

You know, I've wanted to put little flags on people's details - so the first thing you see is loads of different national flags - however one twist, there's no Union Jack.

So, I guess, I'm agreeing with Manning, and on that bombshell...

And once again, the great becardiganed one makes a good point.
I completely agree with what you say about the quality of posters. I think that most of the people involved in this discussion do.
Just because nobody is offering an alternative to Baca's plan, doesn't mean that it has to be done. It could still be a bad plan.
However, he has made me think (oh god, this will make him feel special). Beaker touched upon this already, and even though he didn't like it himself, I can be quite happy with a split along the lines of significance of a series. So I'd be happy with a split between NPPL/PSP/Millennium Series/X-ball and local series. People would know where to look for news concerning the series that shake the world, and also where to look for news concerning last week's Blubberville Open.
That way we could retain the international flavour, yet at the same time separate the good from the bad and the ugly.

Cowperson, let me know what you think of the above.

By the way, thanks for the kind words, Rancid. I for one feel honored to be part of what to me is, without contest, the best forum in paintball.