Campaign Cup Scandal

[Liz]

Again we have all these calls for independant, pro judges but where on earth are we going to get them from? At an age where I'm slowing down (even more!) in my play, but still do feel OK to play at a reasonable level at the back, I don't feel I'm fit enough to ref a whole day any more and certainly not at a major event. I'm sure that I'm not the only one who feels like this, so that means the majority of retired players either won't be up for reffing big events or aren't fit enough any more. Just about all the current players aren't going to want to miss out on playing to ref (plus there's always the bias question with existing players). ISTR non-players as refs was tried last year in the US and was a bit of a disaster, as non-players don't seem to understand the game well enough to make decent refs.

So I ask the question again - where can we GET these high quality independant refs from, even if the money CAN be found to pay them enough to put up with being shot to sh*t all day and get nothing but abuse from the players?

 

[raehl]

Hrm...

You pay refs ****, and you get **** reffing. You let the players treat the refs like ****, and you get **** reffing. There's a surprise.

When the players are ready to pay an extra $500/team for better reffing, that's when they'll get better reffing. Until then, the majority of people willing to work for the wage offerred won't know what they're doing, because the people who will know what they're doing are playing. And even the refs dumb enough to go through the abuse of reffing a major tournament for the wage offerred are unlikely to repeat their error.

Or when some good sponsor money comes the sports way... that would also solve the problem.

Of course, there are some other things that could help:

1) Fix the rules. Most tournament rules are NOT written to make the official's life easy.
2) Fix player behavior. As long as event promoters allow their players to treat their refs like ****, they'll have a tough time retaining refs.


The NCPA pays our refs average to above average, but we also get teams who ask us when we'll have reffing gigs open. Why? Because they don't have to deal with BS, because we don't tolerate BS from our players.

So next time you find yourself screaming in a ref's face because you didn't like the call or otherwise throwing a tempertantrum, wondering why the reffing sucks... YOU ARE WHY.


- Chris

 

[cjansen]

Re: As long as teams marshall....

Originally posted by Uffe

Originally posted by cjansen
....this will always happen, in one form or another. However, to make a blanket accusation to everyone who marshalled Campaign is out of line. You (Uffe) didn't play field 7 or 8. And granted, I haven't heard anything good about field 7, but you'll never see any sh!t like that on a field that we're marshalling.

Yes, I did play both field 7 and 8, as I played for Malera NG in this tournament.

Then you wouldn't happen to be the Malera NG player that was screaming at me "GET AWAY FROM ME, MARSHALL - GET AWAY FROM ME, MARSHALL," as I was checking the player in the X would you?

 

[MausV]

Hrm...

Originally posted by raehl
You pay refs ****, and you get **** reffing. You let the players treat the refs like ****, and you get **** reffing. There's a surprise.

When the players are ready to pay an extra $500/team for better reffing, that's when they'll get better reffing. Until then, the majority of people willing to work for the wage offerred won't know what they're doing, because the people who will know what they're doing are playing. And even the refs dumb enough to go through the abuse of reffing a major tournament for the wage offerred are unlikely to repeat their error.

Or when some good sponsor money comes the sports way... that would also solve the problem.

Of course, there are some other things that could help:

1) Fix the rules. Most tournament rules are NOT written to make the official's life easy.
2) Fix player behavior. As long as event promoters allow their players to treat their refs like ****, they'll have a tough time retaining refs.


The NCPA pays our refs average to above average, but we also get teams who ask us when we'll have reffing gigs open. Why? Because they don't have to deal with BS, because we don't tolerate BS from our players.

So next time you find yourself screaming in a ref's face because you didn't like the call or otherwise throwing a tempertantrum, wondering why the reffing sucks... YOU ARE WHY.


- Chris

Too right! Some respect should be shown fo the refs!

 

[pestilence]

CONSPIRACY CONSPIRACY!!

'We woz robber yer 'onour' we played like crap, but it woz the judges that dun for us!!

After every event it's always the same. A team bombs out, and rather than reflect on why, they blame the judges.

I didnt play Campign, but I did spectate. It seems that there were bad calls made, but

a: I was specating and like sjt19 suggests I cant see everything from the side lines.

b: it seems all teams suffer from bad calls - it goes with the territory. (it's human nature to bytch, although paintballers seem to make this a sport in itself)

Look at any sport, there's always teams/players bending the rules, and there will always be ref/ judges making decisions as they can, right or wrong. You cant please all the people all the time.

I'm not a great advocate of increasing game fee's to pay for more proffesional marshals. Paintball is expensive enough as it is. Especailly for us lower end teams were sponsors are few and hard fought over. Perpahps a touney organiser can pay in other ways, they have a much greater buying power than most teams, so why not pay in paint or the like?

either way, a better paid ref will still make mistakes. The only way for fair and square would be to use Robots (insert your joke/ chosen team name here)........


either way, bite the bullet and do it yourself, or STFU whinging about not winning one of the biggest events in Europe 'cos of the judging. Face it, your mum got it wrong, you aint that special after all.

Lastly - Robbo, ol' Pestybollox was stood right next to you, when Nexus were up against the Tigers, although I didnt want to say hello as you looked abit....stressed at the time
Great game, but jeez your boyz like to keep us on our toes!!

 

[supair]

heres an idea....

hows about we ditch the pointless, pretty much redundant after the first morning id cards that cost £15 (novice - not sure about am and pro) and put that money towards impartial, proffesional marshalling, instead of..........
what does that money go towards?

those cards, although born out of good intentions, are pointless. We had our pot bitches in the players area all weekend, and they didnt need a card, they were never checked. I saw people walking in who were obviously not players who were never checked. we were checked only twice on field, and with goggles on there was no way the marshalls could tell if we were who our cards said we were.

If we put that money aside at every millenium event, the series could have fully paid, proffesional, independantly monitored and controlled marshalls. now surely thats not out of the question is it?

personally, i didnt see a problem at campaign with marshalling, but if we are ever to stamp out these accusations of bias and cheating, we need an independant body to regulate a team of independant marshalls, like soccer referees or ice hockey refs etc etc. and we'll never be accepted as a serious sport until this happens, i mean, how can u take a sport seriously when people are being refereed by friends?

 

[Fat-Frank]

Campaign Cup Scandal part 2

CAMPAIGN CUP A SCANDAL? = NOT!!


First of all i would like to congratulate Niall with another great tournament.
Personally this was my 3. in a row, and hopefully i can keep on coming back! (Maybe not as a ref, since one of my teammates just put "our head on the plate" )

Anyway:
Big thanks to all the people involved at campaign, which i guess is a lot!

All inn all the tournament was great, good airsystem, nice fields, and we even got to use our ID cards...A lot!
And it is awesome that we can play in a place like CP!


When it come`s to the point of reffing......
There`s no use in "crying over spillt milk", but here the Millenium organizers and the EPA (when it`s up and running) should come together.

As it is mentioned several place`s here on the board, there`s not gonna be a own reffing crew for a while.
My suggestion is that as long as it is running as it is today, we should either mix up the ref crews, or change inbetween the fields , when there is a "hometeam" playing!

I do think i remember some postings on this board before, when it comes to French teams being reffed by Frenchmen.. or?

And yes! You do deserve to get a big Thanks for reffing thru the whole tournament!


If i should mention anything: Toilets! 160 teams.. That is some trips to the blue box!!


And completely out of this tread:
Congrats to Nexxus!
Having not seen you play before, just read a lot of stuff..
You got Game!


Sincerely

Frank Vallée
Fieldcaptain Malera

 

[Mark Toye-Nexus]

Thanks Frank

And a good post about CP too - agreed!!

 

[Robbo]

Pesty : Next time say 'Hi', but as for being stressed during that Tigers game, there was an awful lot riding on it as you may know, not least of which was qualification through to the next round.
I don't want to witness too many of those type games thankyou, I doubt my ole ticker will take it.

Fat Frank : Glad to hear there are no issues (I think you know what I mean ).
And thanks for the comments, much appreciated, maybe see you at the German indoor !

 

[Collier]

During the MM events that we marshalled this year we built up a good name for ourselves, we hope to continue this in 2004! I understand the point about mixing up marshalling teams but I'd have to disagree.
I think most teams that Marshall do take pride in their job and in their team name.

If you get what I mean

Paul