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Campaign Cup Scandal

Robbo

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Jul 5, 2001
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Now far be it from me to defend any of the Millennium board but on this occasion I am gonna defend Niall against this sh!t.

Just suppose for instance I am Niall, getting ready to organise my tournament at Crystal Palace :-

I announce the dates and the phone starts ringing, the teams begin to register and as they do I being to arrange the infrastructure around which the tournament will hang.
Part of that is the judging crews.
No problem so far.....
That is until I begin to ask for any teams who might wanna judge and the response is how can I say, not encouraging.
All of the teams wanna play, hardly surprising with one of the best tourneys in the world to go to but still we have to get judges.

Hard fact, is no bugger wants to do it, my staff can but I have nowhere near enough on my own team (Campaign Power) so what do I do?
I beg, I coerce I do anything I can, the budget nowhere near allows me to pay for judges so I have to rely on persuasion and an appeal to paintballers better natures.

As time goes on and more and more teams book in thereby refusing to judge, the problem worsens.
The alternative to this situation is to cancel the tourney but I can't do that, the show must go on.
Slowly, I begin to get enough judges, by hook or by crook, I have persuaded enough paintballers to commit to a non paying job, to get the sh!t shout out of them, to be abused, to be slandered, libeled and generally unappreciated, and all in the name of .....paintball.
You see the problem I hope ?
Niall, like any other promoter can only work with what he is given, if you don't wanna marshal, then don't come on here telling us all this was the worst judges tourney ever, it wasn't, if it was, there would be a universal condemnation of the judging, there isn't.
It had faults yes, but it wasn't the worst, not by a long, long, long, long way.

If anybody thinks they can do a better job than Niall in terms of putting on this event and attracting the teams but at the same time trying to get judges, then you are more than welcome, good luck to ya !
But I tell ya one thing, unless we as paintballers accept an increased entry fee as a basis for pro judging then we can all moan and bitch as we like but the reality is, it’s our own frikkin fault.
 

PimpDaddyZanwaa

TASTE THE PAIN-T
Aug 19, 2002
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Twisted had a few bad calls against us a 1 for 1's but i think this was down to the language barrier, when you ask a marshal WHERE your hit you dont expect to be 1 for 1'd for it.

Also on one of the fields our first game on sunday we got bent over a fcuk one by one from all the marshalls seriously,

firstly one "enemy" player was lit-up on his way in for a mugg he carried on and put paint on our player (PLAYING ON) fair enough its the way the marshal sees it and he wasnt done for it.
but then as the marshal is wipeing our player down from the playing on inncodent (THIS PROVES THE PLAYER PLAYED ON) The other team move up on him (MOVING ON A NEUTRAL PLAYER) and as soon as the marshal steps back bang our player is out of there shot in the back,

our back guys were then pinched out and theres nothing we could do GAME OVER!!

This ruined our sunday completely and the marshall's wouldnt admit they were wrong, they tried to change the subject by saying i had played on,he tried to say i had paint all over my chest before i double mugged 2 guys in the snake (HAD TO GET THAT IN):D :D :D :D But cos i had washed my playing shirt the night before i was spotless apart from the hits i took on my legs after the mugging.

But what can you do the **** already hit the fan, the marshals made there calls and let the game finish dispite us protesting from the dead box.

Im not Knocking the Tourney Cos I honestly had the best weekend of my life and i know its hard to make the right decisions 100% of the time but marshals please make those wrong decission's some where else;) :D
 

Uffe

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Nov 13, 2002
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Re: Re: Re: The Campaign Scandal

Originally posted by Robbo
Ok, cool, my apologies !
...and accepted, they are...

My point is to see if other people feel the same as me about this problem and if there is any will to do something about it. Personally, I'm starting to lose interest in the game, because I think it's not moving in the direction it should. This year's Campaign proved to me that something is seriously wrong.
 

Robbo

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Re: Re: Re: Re: The Campaign Scandal

Originally posted by Uffe
...and accepted, they are...

My point is to see if other people feel the same as me about this problem and if there is any will to do something about it. Personally, I'm starting to lose interest in the game, because I think it's not moving in the direction it should. This year's Campaign proved to me that something is seriously wrong.
Uffe, I have no idea how many years you been playing but if you think this is the worst tourney ever in terms on judging, you gotta be on something.
Your team may have had some really bad calls, maybe even biased judging but believe me, there have been many worse judged tourney than this.
The answer is money or a mandate, we either pay for the best judges and give them points or we make them do it; we as players have to choose as the promoters will not be able to impose any mandates upon us without our consent.
Our fate is in our hands, we decide.
 

Matski

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Aug 8, 2001
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Yo PimpDaddyZanwaa,
Your bunkering on the 2 snake guys was completely clean, you got shot well after you bunkered them both, but again the judges made the right call there too, pulled them both and you after you got hit by the tape shooter...
 

cjansen

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Jun 3, 2003
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As long as teams marshall....

....this will always happen, in one form or another. However, to make a blanket accusation to everyone who marshalled Campaign is out of line. You (Uffe) didn't play field 7 or 8. And granted, I haven't heard anything good about field 7, but you'll never see any sh!t like that on a field that we're marshalling.

That said, here's something that happened during semi-finals that leads to a possible solution. Yes, in principle it's ridiculous that we should have to resort to this, but that's life as long as people feel the need to cheat:

During semi-finals, New Russians from field 8 were split up over fields 4, 5, and 6. We had Legion vs. Bushwackers on field 5, and at the request of Bushwackers, we left the field and three German guys from field 6 filled in. Bushwackers didn't want any possibility of biased marshalling, and we had no problem leaving the field. We knew ourselves that it was uncalled for, because Legion is the cleanest team playing the game, but due to the fact that other teams marshalling do help teams cheat, we understood.

- Maybe the answer is in the scheduling. Work the schedule out to minimize teams playing a field with marshalls from the same country, or who have known close ties to that marshalling team, if possible.
- Rotate marshalls off of the neighboring field when such a situation arises. Both are a pain in the a$$, and only make things more difficult for the organizers / marshalls, but maybe it will help.
- Have a rotation marshalling team, like there was at Campaign, who could step in in situations like that.

Or just charge every player $20 for a marshalling fee. If you take Campaign, with 160 teams of 8 guys (or 7 depending), that's $25,600. Divided by 64 (8 marshalls per field, 8 fields), that's $400 per marshall. I don't think that's too much to ask. If you can make it to the event, you can cough up $20. I know that nobody wants to pay more, but it might make the other $1000 you spent a little more worthwhile. Or pressure the sponsors to pick up half the tab, and cut it down to $10 per player.

Something has to be done, because it also tarnishes marshalls reputations who haven't done anything wrong, just because a team loses and needs someone to blame. We were accused of this during semi's by team Wolf, after their game on the JT field with Knauf. It was total crap, and all because one of our guys pulled a player who didn't think he was out.

Or, just DON'T FCUKING CHEAT!!!!! (yeah, I know - pipe dream.)
 

Uffe

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As long as teams marshall....

Originally posted by cjansen
....this will always happen, in one form or another. However, to make a blanket accusation to everyone who marshalled Campaign is out of line. You (Uffe) didn't play field 7 or 8. And granted, I haven't heard anything good about field 7, but you'll never see any sh!t like that on a field that we're marshalling.

Yes, I did play both field 7 and 8, as I played for Malera NG in this tournament.
 

Mark Toye-Nexus

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Jul 18, 2001
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Did Ornulf go to another Campaign Cup last weekend??

Because what he's describing wasn't the prevailing state of affairs at the one I was at.

Perhaps he could inform the promoters of the one he attended and ensure that they don't clash next year

Mark
 

sjt19

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I am ofended by the blanket accusation of crap judging that you have made Uffe.We had Malera YG on our field and you guys played clean, and we judged both teams fairly. As we did all tournament to every team. I will be honest and put my hand on my heart and say that there are teams out there that i dont like on a personal level, for whatever reason, and there are teams that i would genuinely like to win, when these teams came on my field (field 2, Splatch) i made even more of an effort to be impartial and be 100% fair, personally i thought i did a great job, and thought that my team did equally as well. I had many people thank us during and after the tournament for some of the best reffing they had seen in the Series as a whole this season. When that comes from the likes of the very best pro and Am A teams, it means a great deal, as it is not praise that is handed out indiscriminantly.

I saw some of the worst cheating i have ever seen, by some of the smallest and biggest names in paintball, and when people are prepared to push the rules, lesser known teams like those marshalling on the back fields are going to struggle. I was doing the pre game speeches at the DYE trade stand end of the Splatch field and i tried to give the players the feeling that no bad behaviour would be tolerated and we would be strict but fair. I thought that that was exactly what we were, unafraid to make the important calls on the big teams that lesser judges would let players get away with. I has a lot of praise, and heard very little in the way of complaint from any of the teams that played our field.

There were a few situations that players didnt like, which you Ufe may be reffering to e.g one of the Malera games vs Method on Field 2, but when you accused us of bias judging over the mugging run, i think that you were prematuer, as you were quite suprised that the judge that made the call was in fact on of the Swedish marshalls who marshalls for the S7 in the NPPL, and not one of the judges with my team. Frequently, people on the sideline are too quick to judge and often get the wrong end of the stick when they try to analyse what a judge has done. This was typical of the reaction of a spectator from Evolution when Takeover played Backlash on my Field. The spectator did not realise what was going on and just made the situationa a whole lot worse by his actions on the side line, screaming "bias" and "cheaters" to the three judges assessing the situation. He later apologised, but was too quick to judge what he was not in a position to see properly and i am sure that this was not the only field to experience this kind of thing. So when you are on the sidelines, please remember that the judges are on field for a reason, so that they can get te best view of the plays, so just keep your opinions to yourself and let the game play out.

Peace
:)
 

ukace

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as a member of staff at campaign cup, I would like to stand up for all the marshalls who had to work all day with a half hour break if they were lucky , all you guys out there moaning should have seen how knacked these guys were by sunday, Sam who was at the hotel with us was dead on his feet , but do you here these guys bitching and moaning no because they get on with it, so till some of you out there have marshalled a big event like this and seen how hard it is keep quiet,I also agree with Robbo Nial did a fantastic job , as we all did I hope .