A must read - PA rule change for the 2005 season

[swave_gav]

ye i found out how 2 do that, erm...... program the debounce through the trigger pull the trigger 255 times then go into the lcd progaming push the d bounce up again it will say o (dont use it ???)push up gain and u have d bounce 1 save it and it bounces like a demented kangaroo

 

[Pump'n'Splat]

Hang on, isn't setting a board to DB1 going to be illegal under a trigger bounce rule? But the impression I got from this thread is that trigger bounce will be legal unless it is stupid fast....but what IS the difference between a stupid fast bouncing trigger and one which after a little working can be held down and give a consistant 15bps.

I appreciate that it seems the only way to level it so that everyone is cheating but I think this ruling is ludicrous.

The arguments that keep coming out are "top teams are using cheat boards" Yes, TOP TEAMS...people that know when to take their finger off the trigger, people who know their game from back to front. We are talking here about allowing the latest formed teenage team to be able to walk onto a field and being able to rip off 15 BPS?

How can ANYONE claim that that makes the game more safe? How can people have already said it on this board and kept a straight face. 15 balls in the head/throat/groin on a mugging run? You think if the home office saw that before a decision was made they'd consider it safe and allow this rule to pass. And before anyone asnwers that with "We already have people using cheat boards and it doesn't happen" This is because those that use them tend to be knowledgable ballers, people who have the feel for the game. If this rule goes into force, the amateurs and terminally unskilled will want to add a cheat board to make themselves a "playa", now they can do it legally they wont be as put of, and safety WILL suffer.

To penalise a player that can manage 16bps legally is a double farce. I agree with those who have said previously that the rule is set to penalise those who are skilled and permit those who want to cheat, and no amount of "well it's happening and this is all we can do" would ever change my mind on that point.

If I could shoot 16BPS (please god one day) and a ref pulled me for elimination, i'd be quite prepared to dismantle my marker then and there to show I didn't have cheat software in my marker....what would be done then? Still eliminated because I was a skilled player?....and what does it matter if it's not consistent 16BPS, surely if 16bps shows on the chrono at the time it' used, that's when you get pulled.....same as a reading of over 300fps at the chrono gets you penalised.

I think the current threat of being banned for the use of a cheat board should remain while UK paintball finds a way to test and prove their use I don't believe that this rule works...it encourages cheating and potentially downgrades safety.

Edit : And as the recent page or so of posts has shown, this just creates a bigger headache for the marshalls, potential overshooting. Using a ramped marker immediately greys what is legitimate overshooting.

 

[Collier]

1. yes, any trigger which can be held to give a constant 15bps would still be deemed illegal as it would effectivly be full auto.
2. so this unskilled baller will be able to put 15 shots in the same spot on a player whilst mugging? yeah right! Might happen on paper, unlikely in the real world. Also why would the player continue to shoot now he has a ramping/bouncing marker compared to now? Just cos the marker now ramps/bounces doesn't mean he can't stop pulling the trigger.
3. The 15 bps will be the legal cap. Software will no doubt be available to cap the rof to this set cap. Whether you can shoot it on true semi or not is irrelevant. That is the max bps allowed. It wasn't that long ago 'the industry' set a 13 bps cap....
4. Marshalls know what overshooting is, the head judge certainly will do!

 

[Matski]

What kind of crappy judges need this kind of rule to tell if 'overshooting' is going on?...."duuuuuuhh 1"....."duhhhh 2"...."duhhhh 3" ABC= overkill. Unbelievable. It's totally obvious where there is malicious intent to hurt someone.. and just a player in the wrong place at the wrong time....
Ok running up to some guy with his back to you and drilling him 10 times is excessive but you havnt got to bother counting the hits to decide that...lighting a guy up whos still shooting at you, running to bunker you..whatever...is completely different.....

Is this '3 hit rule' in place already in PA clup?

 

[martin]

Originally posted by matski
What kind of crappy judges need this kind of rule to tell if 'overshooting' is going on?...."duuuuuuhh 1"....."duhhhh 2"...."duhhhh 3" ABC= overkill. Unbelievable. It's totally obvious where there is malicious intent to hurt someone.. and just a player in the wrong place at the wrong time....
Ok running up to some guy with his back to you and drilling him 10 times is excessive but you havnt got to bother counting the hits to decide that...lighting a guy up whos still shooting at you, running to bunker you..whatever...is completely different.....

Is this '3 hit rule' in place already in PA clup?

for once i agree

 

[Russell Smith]

Originally posted by Pump'n'Splat


15 balls in the head/throat/groin on a mugging run?

Players of all levels can shoot at 7/8 balls per second.

Seven shots in the head is a bit much dont you think.
And it's something I have never seen, then again I've only reffed for twelve years.
Because we let the guns shoot at 15 bps will not mean you have to, and you do not have to shoot someone 15 times to eliminate them - one shot will still do.

Russ.

 

[Russell Smith]

Originally posted by matski
What kind of crappy judges need this kind of rule to tell if 'overshooting' is going on?...."duuuuuuhh 1"....."duhhhh 2"...."duhhhh 3" ABC= overkill. Unbelievable. It's totally obvious where there is malicious intent to hurt someone.. and just a player in the wrong place at the wrong time....
Ok running up to some guy with his back to you and drilling him 10 times is excessive but you havnt got to bother counting the hits to decide that...lighting a guy up whos still shooting at you, running to bunker you..whatever...is completely different.....

Is this '3 hit rule' in place already in PA clup?

Fully agree.
And no the PA does not and will not have a 3 hit rule.


Russ

 

[Pump'n'Splat]

Originally posted by Collier
1. yes, any trigger which can be held to give a constant 15bps would still be deemed illegal as it would effectivly be full auto.

I may be showing naevite here, but can't cheat boards be programmed to full-auto after a code is entered? If so, then immediately this rule causes a rock for the PA's back. A player uses a cheat board that allows ramping, whacks on a full-auto, capped to 15bps. They can turn it off before they leave the field, when if it's checked it's just a normal "acceptably cheating" marker. If they're then pulled for using a cheat board, and the full-auto cannot be proved, then that player can openly accuse you of not obeying your own rules.

The point i'm trying to make is that if you legalise cheating, then all that it will do is stretch the grey area further. I can't see how this will make things easier, it will just allow those who want to cheat to push the envelope further, while potentialy penalising skilled players.

I'm not saying overshooting WILL happen on a regular basis, i'm saying that allowing ramping boards gives the potential for it to happen more often...and yes, I think it's possible for a noob to flick their trigger in the heat of passion and when you're close to someone it's really not hard to place your balls in a tight grouping. Anything which takes the control of shots out of a players hands is unsafe, and therefore should be illegal.

 

[Collier]

Originally posted by Pump'n'Splat
I may be showing naevite here, but can't cheat boards be programmed to full-auto after a code is entered? If so, then immediately this rule causes a rock for the PA's back. A player uses a cheat board that allows ramping, whacks on a full-auto, capped to 15bps. They can turn it off before they leave the field, when if it's checked it's just a normal "acceptably cheating" marker. If they're then pulled for using a cheat board, and the full-auto cannot be proved, then that player can openly accuse you of not obeying your own rules.

The point i'm trying to make is that if you legalise cheating, then all that it will do is stretch the grey area further. I can't see how this will make things easier, it will just allow those who want to cheat to push the envelope further, while potentialy penalising skilled players.

I'm not saying overshooting WILL happen on a regular basis, i'm saying that allowing ramping boards gives the potential for it to happen more often...and yes, I think it's possible for a noob to flick their trigger in the heat of passion and when you're close to someone it's really not hard to place your balls in a tight grouping. Anything which takes the control of shots out of a players hands is unsafe, and therefore should be illegal.

But control IS still the players hands. Ramoing doesn't make the guns 'run away'.
And again the player can still stop shooting when they choose to, the proposed rule isn't going to allow 1 pull 15 balls out the end.

[edit] is the phrase you wanted "make a rod for their own back"? [/edit]

 

[Pump'n'Splat]

Originally posted by Collier
But control IS still the players hands. Ramoing doesn't make the guns 'run away'.
And again the player can still stop shooting when they choose to, the proposed rule isn't going to allow 1 pull 15 balls out the end.

[edit] is the phrase you wanted "make a rod for their own back"? [/edit]

Call me picky, but pulling a trigger x times and getting x+X balls out is not being in full control of a gun. ESPECIALLY for novice players.

How about the possibility of a Full-Auto board being used but not detected? Ok, a gun wont run away, but this rule is just sandbagging a grey area which in turn pushes further grey areas out into the rules.

10 balls to 15 ramping, I could possibly accept that as a rule without feeling it's going to compromise safety, it would imply that the player would need an amount of trigger skill to reach the ramp. But how to police it? Who's going to stop the "Little kid flash" from trying to look good on the field by using a board which ramps sooner than that...and how then are you going to police that? This ruling would just open up a whole new load of opportunities to bend others.

And if bounce is allowed, as inferred by the original post, then that IS a loss of control issue, period. How then to police what bounce is legal and what is illegal?

Still, players with natural skill and without the ability to cap their marker are having to accomodate the cheats by playing or being unfairly dismissed from the field...that is completely out of order.

If the home office are involved. How about actually legally enforcing cheat boards to be created on a different coloured circuit board? Red, for example. A quick check of any gun would then reveal an illegal piece of equipment. Surely as the legislation states a legal limit of one shot per trigger pull this is just a case of commercially enforcing that rule to be able to recognise the manufacture of an illegal piece of equipment.

Nahh, A Rock is heavier than a rod....besides i'm already sounding like i've got the pole up me arse!