15bps rant

[FAMINE]

I am taking your view on board matey, But wiping still happens and so is of equal importance. Would the soloution b4 this supposed decrease be to legalise wiping? Err no, yet that is the proposal for markers.

15bps consistant, nope. But what about those short burst of say 5 or 6 at 15bps??

Now the point that you seem to miss, is I DONT HAVE AN ANSWER, BUT THIS DOESNT MAKE YOURS RIGHT!!!!!!!

If you are so confident that you are correct, lets have a poll on an open forum and see what other people think! I know a lot of peeps not posting on this issue for fear of being knocked down and asked to come up with a soloution. But it remains that they feel this one is not right.

I know this wouldnt give a 100% true reflection of the touny world, as a lot of peeps dont or wont post here. But would be a good indication.

Im getting sick to death of this discussion, people bring up objections and yet non are listened too, just the same old reply of "well whats your soloution". It continues in circles round and round, with no one listening.

Now i may be wrong, but most people I have talked too about this doesnt really see the problem tyhe way things are. yet feel these changes would create more problems that they would solve.

I would rather get mugged by the odd cheating mofo with a ramping board, that getting mugged with a ramping board everytime!
How in the hell is that safe???????

 

[Chicago]

I'd rather get mugged with a cheaitng board shooting 15 bps every time than a cheating board shooting 20 bps some of the time.

Wiping is a bad example. If we made wiping legal, nobody would ever leave the field. Allowing ramping doesn't suddenly make the game pointless. It's also a bad example because the problem with catching wiping can, and should, be fixed by better ref training. We could trans refs 16 hours a day for a year and they still won't be able to get them cheater baords with hidden cheat modes.

Although, to be honest, i'm just so good that I never get mugged anyway, so i'ts not an issue for me.

Real solution is a standardbaord, but that's not possible in the short term. Hopefully it'll be standard in the log term.

 

[Steve Morris]

Originally posted by FAMINE
If you are so confident that you are correct, lets have a poll on an open forum and see what other people think!

I'm not so confident I'm correct. In fact I wish we didn't have to have the cap with the enhanced modes. And I wish someone would come up with a better solution. That's why I keep asking for the critics to suggest something that hasn't been thought of before.

Then to the point about what the "majority" thinks, it would be good for most to agree but that doesn't decide if it is right or wrong or can be implemented.

Originally posted by FAMINE
Im getting sick to death of this discussion, people bring up objections and yet non are listened to...just the same old reply of "well whats your soloution". It continues in circles round and round, with no one listening....

That's what I've been saying. Your arguments are the same as have been brought up countless times before on these and other threads. The only unique point you have is the analogy to wiping, which frankly does not hold water and that has been shown IMO.

 

[FAMINE]

And around we go again,
Still not confident enough for a poll?
Still listened to no new points?
Still knocking back any opinions against this rule?

Whatever guys, Ramping will still happen, cheats will still cheat and wipers will still wipe, all you are doing is making it easier for them.

Nice work, I applaud you.

 

[FAMINE]

Originally posted by Chicago
It's also a bad example because the problem with catching wiping can, and should, be fixed by better ref training.

Yeah, I agree. Just a shame that we still havent managed it after 20 years of paintball!!

It happens, it shouldnt. Maybe its getting less, maybe the wipers are getting better and less detected.
But hey, thats not so easy to make legal now is it

 

[Intheno]

Steve, regarding your question, you are missing my point. Yes, the guns in the UK at the moment are not legal, and yes, you could call and blow the whistle, and there's nothing stopping you. However this would effect the owners of the guns, and possibly the companies that supplied them (if they supplied them with the mode included). The fact is it is still against the rules, which means that the tournament promotor is covered, as he has rules, and employs personnel (refs) to prohibit the use of ilegal gats.
Putting it in the rules and saying they are allowed is the dodgey part, as you are encouraging people to break the law as an organisation, and you have your own written rules to condemn you should the **** hit the fan.

Re. the homeoffice discussions. They are discussions. Once the home office allows ramoping guns and provide this alteration to UK legislation in writing then the legal problem goes away. All the other issues remain of course.

Steve, as an accomplished ref, youy know that you can't make anything stick by saying 'In my experience that gun is firing over 15bps' right?

And the sound activated device - relying on technology that is untested (unless you count the tests the NPPL did, which failed) to base a new ruling on is putting the cart before the horse, don't you think?

 

[Steve Morris]

Originally posted by Intheno
Putting it in the rules and saying they are allowed is the dodgey part, as you are encouraging people to break the law as an organisation, and you have your own written rules to condemn you should the **** hit the fan.

Point conceded. Whatever written rules we have must be in compliance with the local laws of the tournament venues (where does that leave the question of allowable velocity in Germany?).

Originally posted by Intheno
Steve, as an accomplished ref, youy know that you can't make anything stick by saying 'In my experience that gun is firing over 15bps' right?

Right. The obvious sound difference would be a tip-off just like before. Then a ref might run up from behind the player and place the instrument with mic directly under the marker's barrel, just like hand chronies are used today. What I honestly don't know is if the lack of signal selectivity could throw the ballistics chrono off when measured directly under the barrel. Maybe you know and we can also ask our NXL ref friends. At least the sound report would cause the gun in question to be further scrutinized.

While we're here, I saw guns kick off right before my eyes but was powerless to prove anything although I knew the gun was cheating. At least the proposed rules change that.

Originally posted by Intheno
And the sound activated device - relying on technology that is untested (unless you count the tests the NPPL did, which failed) to base a new ruling on is putting the cart before the horse, don't you think?

Also agreed. As I understand it something should be forthcoming about that very soon. Maybe that's why Millennium's rules commission is waiting...I honestly don't know.

Meanwhile, won't you admit that NPPL's robot still leaves the door wide open to sophisticated gun cheating? (I don't expect an answer but it would be nice since I'm being straight.)

 

[Intheno]

On the robot, yes of course, it is only reliable in catching lazy cheats or thicko's.

Point is, it was catching them all year. A step was taken, it caught cheats. No not many of them, but some, which is progress, although not the level of progress that people want.

I expect the robot will be programmed to run other tests too, and basically developed to catch more infringers. At the moment however, it remains the only technology to monitor guns in any league, and is the only thing that can catch cheats of any kind via technology, so I guess any criticism directed towards it is somewhat, erm, moot, as what can you compare it to?

 

[Steve Morris]

Originally posted by Intheno
...I guess any criticism directed towards it is somewhat, erm, moot, as what can you compare it to?

I personally caught some cheater guns that were electronically adding shots that the robot would have passed and that was only after being informed on how the cheat was being hidden. But I do think the robot was much better than nothing and I admire NPPL for taking a stand against particular brands of cheater chips.

I think we agree something much more is needed for getting guns under control. I suppose we just don't agree on the method at the moment.

 

[ANDY-501]

Here's a thought...............

Why not have a device that measures how many times in one second you can tap your fingers, everyone is measured in the morning and gets a R.O.F. sticker put on the back of their shirt determined by how fast they can actually pull the trigger !

That way the marshall can stand behind you and see what your rate of fire is and test you with his little b.p.s. sound device. If you are over your stated rof by more than say 2 b.p.s. you are penalised. This way even with ramping you would not be allowed over the stated r.o.f. you could achieve anyway.