so andy, say it was cold in the morning and fired slow and it got warm in the day and u was railing lol
15bps rant
- Thread starter Myth
- Start date
you could use a heated box to do the tests in, or if you wanted a re-test at lunchtime you could go and get one done.
Personally i cant believe how many do gooders their are out their.
Stop whinging like little bitches and get over it. If your not willing to change with the game then simple...stop playing
(My views are exactly my own thats it. Not reflective of my team)
Stop whinging like little bitches
and get over it. If your not willing to change with the game then simple...stop playing(My views are exactly my own thats it. Not reflective of my team)
Originally posted by Pee Wee
Personally i cant believe how many do gooders their are out their.
Stop whinging like little bitches
(My views are exactly my own thats it. Not reflective of my team)
Well thanks for clearing that up for us and giving us a solution
Perhaps all the people who agree with the new rule and are NOT "whinging little bitches" should be made to wear a tag or badge on their jersey next year to signify which way they voted.
That way when they get shot to s**t by two players at once they can not turn into a "whinging little bitch" and complain to the marshalls that they have been overshot due to the very rule they were so desperate to enforce in the first place !
.
well Andy im not being funny mate but the idea is not to actually get shot in the first place
besides im not saying im desperate for the rule not saying that at all. But if the rule is going to come in theirs no point in having a little rant over it.
And all this stuff about well its part of the fundamental skillz of a baller if he can rip his gun with his fingers. Thats bull.
So if a playa can one ball every single person on the other team does that mean he has less skillz then ol johnny crack head whos doing 30 a second
well Andy im not being funny mate but the idea is not to actually get shot in the first place
besides im not saying im desperate for the rule not saying that at all. But if the rule is going to come in theirs no point in having a little rant over it.
And all this stuff about well its part of the fundamental skillz of a baller if he can rip his gun with his fingers. Thats bull.
So if a playa can one ball every single person on the other team does that mean he has less skillz then ol johnny crack head whos doing 30 a second
Actually, I've taken to doing the reverse of that. If I see you shooting mad fast during a game, I pull the gun. I test it. Of course, it's fine.Originally posted by ANDY-501
Why not have a device that measures how many times in one second you can tap your fingers, everyone is measured in the morning and gets a R.O.F. sticker put on the back of their shirt determined by how fast they can actually pull the trigger !
That way the marshall can stand behind you and see what your rate of fire is and test you with his little b.p.s. sound device. If you are over your stated rof by more than say 2 b.p.s. you are penalised. This way even with ramping you would not be allowed over the stated r.o.f. you could achieve anyway.
But then I hand the gun back to the player and ask them to shoot fast. When they are suddenly only able ot shoot 6 or 7 bps, I consider that good enough evidence.
The PSP tournament that is going on in Los Angeles as I write should shed light on this issue as the first major league event with the 15bps cap (not counting NXL since it's a closed league played on one field).
At the moment I'm inclined to think that the proposed rules are the way to go with the possibility of reducing the velocity to perhaps 280fps as Dr No suggests. If there seems to be a problem after that then maybe we just have to suck it up and accept an even slower cap, say 10bps.
There are simply no good solutions.
At the moment I'm inclined to think that the proposed rules are the way to go with the possibility of reducing the velocity to perhaps 280fps as Dr No suggests. If there seems to be a problem after that then maybe we just have to suck it up and accept an even slower cap, say 10bps.
There are simply no good solutions.
The following was copied from Warpig.com's website regarding the PSP LA (Pomona) event and may be germaine to this discussion:
_____________________________________
[Regarding the amended PSP equipment rules:]
...The major change in that rule set for 2005 is the abandonment of the semi-automatic limitation on paintguns, and the inclusion of a 15 ball per second rate of fire cap. The change mimics the rule adopted by the National X Ball League [that] holds its professional level competitions at PSP tournaments. A continual problem in tournament paintball for the last several years has been cheating in the form of secret firing modes capable of enhancing rate of fire and or velocity during a game. While game restrictions limited teams to traditional semi-automatic firing where the paintball gun fires only one shot per pull and release of the trigger, the technology has not been available to fully enforce this. Because modern high-end paintball guns are operated by programmable microprocessors, most of which are built in such a way that it is not possible to decompile and examine their software, finding well designed cheater modes is next to impossible without an admission of guilt.
Regardless of what advance testing methods are used off the field, players and teams with access to the right resources have been able to secretly switch into illegal performance boosting modes by tapping a secret code on their trigger, or input buttons of their paintgun. Without knowing the secret access codes, referees have had no way to prove that a cheat was involved. A few years ago, even though it existed and was used in national tournaments, this type of cheating technology was not common. Today, cheater boards programmed with hidden modes are available as an off the shelf commercial product.
Without a practical way to allow competitors to use their choice of commercially available paintball guns and circuit boards, and to also monitor that the number of paintballs fired matches the number of trigger pulls while a game is in progress, both the NXL and PSP have changed their rules to allow the enhanced rates of fire they do not have the technology to stop, and to instead place the limitations on things that can be measured.
The new PSP 2005 Equipment rules require that a paintgun fire as a traditional semi-auto for the first three shots after any time at which it has been at rest for a second or more. After the first three shots, the marker may fire up to three shots for each complete cycle of the trigger. While enforcement of these two rules has the same problems facing enforcement of true semi-automatic, allowing them in conjunction with the 15 ball per second rate of fire cap removes any advantage one might achieve by using a hidden cheater mode. The actual limitation in the rules is not just 15 balls within a single second, but a minimum timing of 0.066 seconds between each shot. Players caught shooting with 0.065 seconds gap between their shots (just under fifteen and a half shots per second) will be subject to a minor penalty. A time gap of 0.060 seconds or less between any two shots (just under sixteen and a half shots per second) will result in a gross penalty.
Enforcement of the velocity limits and the rate of fire achieved on field falls upon the use of new acoustic and radar technology to measure both velocity and rate of fire of players while they are shooting, during a game.
As in past years, velocity ramping, or programming a paintgun to increase its dwell time as rate of fire increases, is prohibited. Previously when paintguns were tested primarily before and after games, with equipment that had trouble determining velocity during a high speed multi-shot string, practical methods were not in place to check for velocity ramping. The NXL began using Doppler RADAR guns to spot check velocity on field, to fight velocity ramping in 2004.
...While the new equipment rules are in one way a step forward in developing gun restrictions that can actually be enforced, they are not perfect in that the technology needed to measure the rate of fire achieved by a paintgun on the field is not yet mature. A single acoustic shot counter was used on Friday, spot checking suspicious players. Additional counters are on order, and the NXL is still working to develop custom built equipment to measure rate of fire acoustically from across the field. One of the goals in the equipment design, according to NXL commissioner Mike Ratco is that it be inexpensive so that it can be put to use by other leagues and event promoters. Two Doppler RADAR guns, capable of spot checking velocities from across field were also used in addition to the handheld RadarChron chronographs which must be held next to the paintgun being checked.
According to PSP ultimate judge Robert “Rosie” Rose, the first divisional X-Ball rate of fire penalty was issued to a Jax Worriors player . The player's paintgun was timed at a peak rate of over 22 bps between two shots. The paintgun was confiscated and player suspended for the duration of the event. Rose stated that the league is very serious about enforcing both rate of fire and velocity limits, and that once the test equipment details are worked out so that enforcement is more consistent, stronger penalties, possibly even one year suspensions will be in order. While the technology is still being refined, an X-Ball player suspected of being in violation is suspended for two minutes, and the paintgun is examined during the suspension. If the paintgun can be shown to operate illegally during the penalty time, further action, such as player suspension can be levied, depending on the particular penalty.
________________________________________
_____________________________________
[Regarding the amended PSP equipment rules:]
...The major change in that rule set for 2005 is the abandonment of the semi-automatic limitation on paintguns, and the inclusion of a 15 ball per second rate of fire cap. The change mimics the rule adopted by the National X Ball League [that] holds its professional level competitions at PSP tournaments. A continual problem in tournament paintball for the last several years has been cheating in the form of secret firing modes capable of enhancing rate of fire and or velocity during a game. While game restrictions limited teams to traditional semi-automatic firing where the paintball gun fires only one shot per pull and release of the trigger, the technology has not been available to fully enforce this. Because modern high-end paintball guns are operated by programmable microprocessors, most of which are built in such a way that it is not possible to decompile and examine their software, finding well designed cheater modes is next to impossible without an admission of guilt.
Regardless of what advance testing methods are used off the field, players and teams with access to the right resources have been able to secretly switch into illegal performance boosting modes by tapping a secret code on their trigger, or input buttons of their paintgun. Without knowing the secret access codes, referees have had no way to prove that a cheat was involved. A few years ago, even though it existed and was used in national tournaments, this type of cheating technology was not common. Today, cheater boards programmed with hidden modes are available as an off the shelf commercial product.
Without a practical way to allow competitors to use their choice of commercially available paintball guns and circuit boards, and to also monitor that the number of paintballs fired matches the number of trigger pulls while a game is in progress, both the NXL and PSP have changed their rules to allow the enhanced rates of fire they do not have the technology to stop, and to instead place the limitations on things that can be measured.
The new PSP 2005 Equipment rules require that a paintgun fire as a traditional semi-auto for the first three shots after any time at which it has been at rest for a second or more. After the first three shots, the marker may fire up to three shots for each complete cycle of the trigger. While enforcement of these two rules has the same problems facing enforcement of true semi-automatic, allowing them in conjunction with the 15 ball per second rate of fire cap removes any advantage one might achieve by using a hidden cheater mode. The actual limitation in the rules is not just 15 balls within a single second, but a minimum timing of 0.066 seconds between each shot. Players caught shooting with 0.065 seconds gap between their shots (just under fifteen and a half shots per second) will be subject to a minor penalty. A time gap of 0.060 seconds or less between any two shots (just under sixteen and a half shots per second) will result in a gross penalty.
Enforcement of the velocity limits and the rate of fire achieved on field falls upon the use of new acoustic and radar technology to measure both velocity and rate of fire of players while they are shooting, during a game.
As in past years, velocity ramping, or programming a paintgun to increase its dwell time as rate of fire increases, is prohibited. Previously when paintguns were tested primarily before and after games, with equipment that had trouble determining velocity during a high speed multi-shot string, practical methods were not in place to check for velocity ramping. The NXL began using Doppler RADAR guns to spot check velocity on field, to fight velocity ramping in 2004.
...While the new equipment rules are in one way a step forward in developing gun restrictions that can actually be enforced, they are not perfect in that the technology needed to measure the rate of fire achieved by a paintgun on the field is not yet mature. A single acoustic shot counter was used on Friday, spot checking suspicious players. Additional counters are on order, and the NXL is still working to develop custom built equipment to measure rate of fire acoustically from across the field. One of the goals in the equipment design, according to NXL commissioner Mike Ratco is that it be inexpensive so that it can be put to use by other leagues and event promoters. Two Doppler RADAR guns, capable of spot checking velocities from across field were also used in addition to the handheld RadarChron chronographs which must be held next to the paintgun being checked.
According to PSP ultimate judge Robert “Rosie” Rose, the first divisional X-Ball rate of fire penalty was issued to a Jax Worriors player . The player's paintgun was timed at a peak rate of over 22 bps between two shots. The paintgun was confiscated and player suspended for the duration of the event. Rose stated that the league is very serious about enforcing both rate of fire and velocity limits, and that once the test equipment details are worked out so that enforcement is more consistent, stronger penalties, possibly even one year suspensions will be in order. While the technology is still being refined, an X-Ball player suspected of being in violation is suspended for two minutes, and the paintgun is examined during the suspension. If the paintgun can be shown to operate illegally during the penalty time, further action, such as player suspension can be levied, depending on the particular penalty.
________________________________________
Poll
As Famine suggested earlier, I think a poll would be good. Although I suspect he may not like the result (although I could be wrong!).
99% of players using a electronic gun will be "cheating" as most, if not all, have shot stacking or enhanced modes built in as standard. Come on guys you don't really believe you can shoot 24bps now.....do you
The only real answer, to erradicate any chance of board cheats is to ban electronic triggers altogether. So a simple solution, only event markers allowed. Lets say Tippmanns or infernos. Checked for bounce, which should be impossible on these. So everyone down to 8bps.....no thanks!
As Famine suggested earlier, I think a poll would be good. Although I suspect he may not like the result (although I could be wrong!).
99% of players using a electronic gun will be "cheating" as most, if not all, have shot stacking or enhanced modes built in as standard. Come on guys you don't really believe you can shoot 24bps now.....do you
The only real answer, to erradicate any chance of board cheats is to ban electronic triggers altogether. So a simple solution, only event markers allowed. Lets say Tippmanns or infernos. Checked for bounce, which should be impossible on these. So everyone down to 8bps.....no thanks!
