X-Ball..........The Future ?

[Cube]

Cube...

Originally posted by goose
... the NBA anology does not fall short, and here's why. When was the last time that you played hoops (if you do - I don't know) or know anyone who does, who played 4 x 12 minute quarters, using the 24 second shot clock, the NBA 3 point line, no-zone defense (when that was the illegal defense rule), 6 personal fouls and 3 t.v. timeouts a quarter?

Sure, at it very basic level it's the same sport - ball in hoop = 2 points etc. - however all of the things that I have mentioned are rules only at the NBA level. Also - go to playgrounds - what do you see people playing - it's pick-up to a certain score - not time, no time outs, hell it could even be 3-on-3 half court.

Fair enough, depends on the sport though. At the end of the day, the skills are the same so I'll take your point. However at school/college level, where the drafts for the pro leagues are made aren't the rules, pretty much the same-give or take the TV stuff

Originally posted by goose
What the various forms of basketball give you, as the player, is the ability to find a level & game that fits you and one that you like playing. You have different tactics when it come to 3-on-3, different tactics if you are playing full or half court - things change - players adapt.

True, they should, but then they do have a period to adapt to the new came when they come up "through the ranks". Did any of the teams playing X-Ball have that luxury, didn't seem that way.

If the 8 team major X-Ball league comes off then players will be picked and given the training chance to change their game I assume. If not they may well be fish out of water.

Originally posted by goose
but at the heart of it, it is still the same game - I shoot you, you go to the dead zone.

Unless I come back out and shoot you back

Originally posted by goose
The point I was trying to get at with my previous post was - X-Ball is not a feasable format for the majority of players at the current time, these players will then naturally choose to play the form that suits them. No matter how keen organizers are on the idea of full x-ball tournaments - it just won't happen right now for the majority of players, too many things stand in the way - and the major factor being the cost of paint. Also players shouldn't be worried about the traditional 7 man tournaments dissapearing anytime soon - the organizers are not that dumb.

Yup, hopefully my ramblings agreed with that idea, if they didn't they should have!

I don't think X-ball is feasible for the rest of us mortals and I wonder what effect that might have on the quality of the game. Personally I look forward to anything that takes the sport forward into somethig that stops people ripping the pi$$ out of me when I say I play paintball. If X-Ball can do it and work as a sponsored, televised sport in it's own right then hell good on it.

Maybe, just maybe some of that advertising might find it's way down to the lesser beings!

 

[goose]

Cool - got your points - all except that "Unless I come back out and shoot you back" comment

goose

 

[Mark]

BL no prob's I see what you had done and did wonder but then as the "other" post (posts) were missing I understand......To any that did read the original post it wasn't an attack, more of a pertanent (sp?) question, but some order seems to have been obtained now within the thread.

 

[Tyger]

PAY ATTENTION dammit!

Originally posted by Baca Loco

On that basis, I don't begrudge Tyg his opinion but perhaps he'd serve himself and everyone else better by elaborating precisely what his concerns are and stop the nebulous pronouncements of doom.

**growls** you're NOT PAYING ATTENTION!!!!

Ok, in small little words.

IF things go as they are going now, and NOBODY changes the course of things, The only people involved with X-ball will be a SMALL GROUP of players / industry people who will OWN the sport.

Unless there is a way to work into it (a little league, if you will) then it's a closed group. X-ball has no little league, Robbo was the only guy to have open tryouts. I can link the ENTIRE US team to National Paintball Supply in 2 steps or less. Closed group.

If they're going to have what they call best of the best, I want a chance in. EVERYONE deserves a chance in. Even "Joe the backwoods player" who plays with a PGP deserves a shot, or at least a way to work into it. But, as things are going NOW, that won't happen. And if paintball's media arm is a closed loop, then what happens to the rest of us?

See you in the stands then.

Is that cut and dried enough?

-Tyger

 

[Cube]

Originally posted by goose
Cool - got your points - all except that "Unless I come back out and shoot you back" comment

goose

It'd be OK, the game commentators would probably tell you I was due out in advance

 

[Robbo]

Baca : Please Leave This Post Alone

I just got in and had a message on my phone from the guy who wanted the offending post put up, he basically said, that if it caused offence to people, then he wanted it taken down.
He was not in a position to reveal his identity because of certain problems he has with that.
As for what I feel about it ?
Anonymity, as it has sometimes been used on here, is merely a convenience for an ignorant, cowardly poke, in this instance however, it is more a political consideration and definitely not ignorant.
Tyger has been rubbishing tournament players, especially pros ever since I have known him.
His arguments have no real substance and sometimes descend into hysterical nonsense and it's a position that he can't be swayed from.
It's not surprising that his rantings cause a certain amount of incredulity and negative reaction, but this is what he wants and what he feeds off.
Now, in every thread I have ever seen Tyger partake, he is a virtual lone voice amid a furore of rebuttals.
Baca, one of the more intelligent people in here along with Buddha, myself and many more have all locked horns with him but he does not want to listen to the truth, the truth has no room in his life, it's sad and pretty pathetic really.
Whatever, I will erase the post as requested by its author.

Manike, I did not give the author credibility for his sake, I gave it so as to contextualise the post itself.
The point being, that if the author was well versed in the pro game and had experience of seeing Tyger play and also of his continual rantings over the years, then his post could be weighted slightly more than someone less qualified.

Mark, you are right, I never said I liked it, I responded to a request from a friend, he has now asked me to take it down and I will.
As I said in my preface to it, he is a stand up guy and is not in any way confrontational but there comes a time, especially when you have just had enough of what he perceives as some nutball continually vilifying the pros, promoters and so on, that you just crack, and he did.
He had just plain had enough of Tyger and his rantings.
I will stand by my friend 100%.
Nuff Said on him.
If I did wrong, hang me, I don't give two ****s.


In fact, I think I need a rest from all this and will not post or visit this site again, as they say in dancing, Tyger, Manike, Brockdwarf...the floor is yours....Enjoy !!!!

 

[Baca Loco]

The glass is half full

Originally posted by Tyger
**growls** you're NOT PAYING ATTENTION!!!!

Ok, in small little words.

IF things go as they are going now, and NOBODY changes the course of things, The only people involved with X-ball will be a SMALL GROUP of players / industry people who will OWN the sport.

Unless there is a way to work into it (a little league, if you will) then it's a closed group. X-ball has no little league, Robbo was the only guy to have open tryouts. I can link the ENTIRE US team to National Paintball Supply in 2 steps or less. Closed group.

If they're going to have what they call best of the best, I want a chance in. EVERYONE deserves a chance in. Even "Joe the backwoods player" who plays with a PGP deserves a shot, or at least a way to work into it. But, as things are going NOW, that won't happen. And if paintball's media arm is a closed loop, then what happens to the rest of us?

See you in the stands then.

Is that cut and dried enough?

-Tyger

There were a couple of three syllable words in there I had to sound out but . . .
I get the gist of your rant.
I won't argue with you over the ownership issue cus I agree generally tho I think it will all shake out it the end with the $$'s deciding. (Nor does it have huge impact initially on how much or how little it benefits future pro players)
As to the players you're completely off base. In this instance--an exhibition or trial staged to demonstrate the viability of the format--the "coaches" chose the teams. Big deal. Pete had open try-outs not to be egalitarian but because he wanted to win. And if the league should get off the ground the same will apply to each of its teams, owners and coaches--they will want to win.
Early on the rosters will mostly come from the current crop of "pro" players because those are the ranks of players that have established themselves at this time and are therfore "known" commodities. Future players for an expanding league or replacement for retiring or cut players will come from the upper echelon of recognized tourney players or via try-outs, exhibition events, invitation, who knows?
Bottom line is they will want the best players available regardless and it will be their call who those players are--but then, it always is. In every pro sport the ownership and coaches decide who they want on their team, why should this be any different? Their own self-interest will dictate how their operations are run and motivate their desire to put the best team possible on the field when that time comes.
As to your opportunity to be a part of an X-Ball future why shouldn't you have to do what everyone else has had to do? Did Bob Long spot Nicky Cuba at the car wash and say, hey dude, wanna play X-Ball or did he catch Todd at Baskin-Robbins and offer him a spot? They put themselves in a position to be recognized and chosen because of the effort and time they have put into the game over years.
Does the NFL draft prospects a coach might spot at the mall or who played intramural flag football at college? Of course not, cus the prime criterion is the demonstrated ability to perform at a position in the game. Could that mean some potentially brilliant players never get a chance? Sure, but not because they weren't wanted but because they took themselves out of the game by not doing what was necessary to be in a position to succeed.
Tyg, you seem to think you have a "right" to an opportunity. You don't -- but you do have something most of the rest of us never will -- somebody in a position to help get you your opportunity via shortcut. Pete can arrange a chance for you and has said he would. If you really want it you should be willing to do whatever it takes then you'll know regardless of the outcome you gave it your best shot.

 

[Wadidiz]

Nobody's right if everybody's wrong

I've seen before that Nick is anti-anonymous-posting and I can understand where he's coming from. It is a good policy for people with opinions to stand up for them. (For example, I personally support making it a law for demonstrators to be unmasked. Pertinent here, but that is a different and more complicated issue.)

But there are sometimes needs for exceptions to be made. A hero of mine once said something to the effect that rules are made for people, not people for rules. I think that Pete had good reasons for posting what he did and I personally think he is recognized enough as a guy with integrity to be able to make this exception. Even if the person were fictitious, the points made were very germaine. Obviously we shouldn't let the possibility for exceptions get abused.

As for Tyger, why all this wasted time and words? It is so simple. Brilliant players in any of the countries represented at Nations' Cup will get recognized for their talent and will get offers to try out for good teams, if they are dedicated to their sport and continue to play tournaments every chance they get. The truly successful teams are constantly on the look-out for new talent. Known talent gets bought for a bigger and better deal all the time.

Money is the discriminating factor here, as has been said many times on this thread. Paintball is danged expensive. Good kit that always works is the requirement for playing hardball. Unfortunately bad kit is perceived as bad player. For me, I know that no matter how talented I may or may not be, I will never get invited to play on a good team until I pay up for a decent tournament marker again, which I simply can't afford right now. Am I all bitter about it? Of course not. This is the real world. As Robert Zimmerman once sang, money doesn't talk, it swears.

Steve Morris

PS: If you see an old man damaging some egos with a rental Tippmann at a tournament players' practice, then lend him an Angel so the other guys won't feel so bad!

SM

 

[Tyger]

Tyger - please STOP !

Originally posted by Nick Iuel-Brockdorff
Apart from feeling you should have had a spot on the team - who else do you feel is missing in there ?

Who would you have cut to benefit these yet unnamed individuals ?

It's not just about me. I'm TRYING to make the point that EVERYONE should have a shot. I can only speak for myself, hence saqying I should have a shot.

Oh, and Pete, Just becasue I'm critical of tournament play / players does not mean I'm "rubbishing tournament players". Unless you're all so hyper sensitive that you can't take ANY criticisim. check your e-mail BTW.

It's a burden being right. But, in 3 years, you'll all see it too.

-Tyger

 

[Tyger]

The glass is half full

Originally posted by Baca Loco

Does the NFL draft prospects a coach might spot at the mall or who played intramural flag football at college? Of course not
...
Tyg, you seem to think you have a "right" to an opportunity. You don't

1 : But there are ways. If I wanted to get into the NFL I can pursue MANY options, including Canadian Football, Arena Football, IFL, or many other options. Hell, XFL has spawned a few players who now play in the NFL ("He Hate Me")

2 : If you believe that, then I habve nothing more to discuss with a terminal pessimist. EVERYONE deserves a shot, and if you believe otherwise then the X-ball future that I see WILL happen. Shold I save you a cushion on the sidelines?

-Tyger