X-Ball..........The Future ?

[Tyger]

Hey Tyger....

Originally posted by goose
1) Try and find a top team that doesn't have a connection somehow to the Richmond Italia mafia (kidding Rich)

2) ...but if can be so easily changed then maybe there was something wrong with it in the first place. If a new "ruling class" comes along with newer ideas on how to get this silly sport recognized, more power to them (notice I said newer - I don't want to get into this whole USPL/stolen thing - I believe you).

3) This quote from the paintball.com interview with Richmond seems to lend creedence to a lot of what you said...

Notice how he said that players can't play PSP events - he didn't say NPPL

4) Lastly... Where you treated any differently than the other paying teams?

Now you might feel that you could play for the X-Ball team (I have never seen you play but I respect your own judgement of your skills), and you just lacked the "juice" to get on it.

A bit to talk about.

1 : Most of the teams around here. I should mention that in my interview with Craig Miller, he told me that a very FEW teams have rider Diablo sponsorships, the rest wear the logo proudly becasue htey like the product. Fair enough. But, as I recall, isn't Aftershock still with RP?

2 : If this is only about recognition, then it's already failed. Remember Braun has gotten paintball on ESPN two seasons. The '95 woods world cup and the '96 invitational speedball with the doors. The game is recognised, just not taken seriously.

3 : Why the hell won't people believe me when I tell them this stuff? I mean, hell, I'm ALWAYS right, I'm ALWAYS on the ball, and I'm ALWAYS proven to be the correct person!!! Dammit!

4 : According to Baca, becasue I played on a team that placed last I should have been. I Really felt like the IAO wasn't about the IAO, but about X-ball. The IAO was a sideline event.

Don't believe me? Ok, let's look at MOST of the coverage. "How was X-ball?" "What happened in the X-ball game?" "How did England do?" Did anyone ask who won the IAO 7 man? How about the 5 man? Beyond Warpig, who's got pictures of the finals games? Point made.

And, finally, my point was that no matter who I am, I'll never make it on the team. Regardless of practical expirence, regardless that when I shoot semi I'm a 1 man wrecking crew, REGARDLESS of who I am, I'm not in the loop. So forget it, I'm not going to even get a phone call, let alone be on the team.

And do I think I can do it? Let me grab my Cocker or my Stroker, and let me show you what I got. I'll give you a head start too, if you want it. Concieted? Egotistical? Tell me LaSoya is a modest man. Tell me Robbo has no ego problem.

Play pump consistently for 10+ years, then we'll talk.

-Tyger (Yes, I AM being an ass. Why do you ask?)

 

[Tyger]

forgive the double post, but for some reason it won't let me edit the other one.

Goose, I want to answer your question of if we were treated unfairly.

Yes, we were.

The one thing that I can EASILY point to was the fact that the "cool misters" were all at X-ball. The X-ball players had two mini-coolers, the fans had the big cooler. The players in the IAO, nothing. Nada. Zilch. There's also the whole shade thing, but that's another matter. You may not think that's a major thing, but to me, it jsut shows that they were more concenred with X-ball than the IAO.

Now the X-ballers shot the same paint we did, I believe. No big deal. Beyond that, I didn't take the time to examime X-ball. I was kinda busy playing 7-man ball.

If htey do it again next year, they should just call it "X-Ball featuring the IAO" and let us know ahead of time.

-Tyger

 

[Dannefaerd]

See what happens when you log off for a couple of days ... at least the thread is interesting.

The format does seem very similar to USPL - but with a couple of squillion dollars thrown at marketing instead of "confidentiality agreements". (And before you ask I did see the agreement from Steve and Co. - phew...)

On the face of things the new format is a step in the right direction. Yeah, it is going to need some tweaking - and there will be critics and converts everywhere - but at least the game is changing in an obvious manner.

Face it - standard paintball as we know it is boring for people not involved in paintball to watch. I've seen some tapes of 10 man NPPL, and as a general rule, apart from 30 seconds of action I've had more fun watching paint dry (you get the picture).

Maybe limited paint is the way to go for "general" leagues - with the unlimited format being set up for professional leagues, which have the money behind them. Personally I can see something like this working in little old NZ - not as a standard tournament format, but more as a regular season type format ... like a football, hockey, soccer season.....

 

[Robbo]

Tyger, I have stayed out of this because I wasn't sure I could control what I wrote, however, I will try to restrain my natural reaction pattern and concern myself with the issues in hand

I get pissed off with people saying there is some sort of loop that only a few people are allowed to join and you are somehow left out because of this, that or whatever.
This 'loop' as you call it, is a group of individuals who represent the industry and the pro players.
From the outside, it may well seem a closed shop but just how did it evolve and why are you so seemingly excluded ?

Every pro player I know who may inhabit this loop has gained membership because he is a great player, owns a top team, belongs to a paintball company and so on.
The industry figures have earned their stripes just as the players have, there will always be a close relationship between the top players of any sport and the industry figures because of sponsorship, proximity and so on.
You are not precluded from this group because of who you are, you are precluded because you just haven't made the grade as a paintballer.
All that bull**** about you not being eligible is just that, bull**** !!
If you had the skills, believe me, any captain would pick you up in a heartbeat, they don't give two ****s who you are, if you can do the ****, you are on the team, it's as simple as that !!!
It is you who estrange yourself from the loop because of your views and how you present them, you are in the industry of sorts as a contributor to the magazine, this is your foot in the door, you just have to network yourself and things will evolve by themselves commensurate with how you are viewed.
Alternatively, if you really believe, you got what it takes as player, then ask any of the top pro captains for a try out, in fact, I will arrange one for you, just let me know what pro team you wanna try out for and I will do my best to set it up.
Then we'll all know what you can do !!!
In the meantime, I am gonna call Jerry Braun up and get him to answer your accusations of conspiracy amongst Richmond, Gino, Jerry, Bob and the rest.

I will tell you one thing, if and when Jerry answers, you can bet your soul that he will be telling the truth because whilst you may not agree with everything he does, his job as an attorney and his position within the industry predisposes him to telling the whole truth when he comes on boards like this.
He could never leave himself open to do anything else believe me, so when he does reply, it is the truth and not speculative bull**** that you seem to be indulging in.
His response is an informed one, yours is not only speculation but also from a questionable position.
Your move Tyger !!!!!
Robbo

 

[goose]

And do I think I can do it? Let me grab my Cocker or my Stroker, and let me show you what I got. I'll give you a head start too, if you want it. Concieted? Egotistical? Tell me LaSoya is a modest man. Tell me Robbo has no ego problem.

Play pump consistently for 10+ years, then we'll talk.

Read what I wrote - I at no point passed judgement on whether or not you could have played - I specifically said I have never seen you play and that it was up to you to judge your skills in this matter - not mine.

I said that up until now you have not really shown a big interest in the tournament - other than telling us all how terrible it is - how egotistical the players are etc. If this is now changing cool - it takes a big man to admit he "might" have been wrong about tournies - if not, also cool, everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

1) Sure you can find teams who are not "connected" but many of the top ones are - in one way or the other. Is it fair that some players are overlooked - hell no - but again it's no different than all the Nike or Addidas or Reebok high school hoops players who only get chosen for/go to the respective camps. There is marketing pressure in every sport - I didn't invent it, nor do I condone it, it's just a fact we have to try and change. Robbo was the only one that I know of who did it right - and congrats to him.

2) Maybe recognition was the wrong word - maybe "big money viable" is a better term.

3) Yes you're always right - except when Brockdorff thinks he is.

4) Again read what I wrote was your team treated different from the other non-x-ballers? Just because the organizers ran an exhibition, this doesn't mean that you where treated unfairly. If you have a problem with the shade, prices etc. don't blame it on x-ball - blame it on the organizers (just like everyone else does after every NPPL/PSP event).

I Really felt like the IAO wasn't about the IAO, but about X-ball. The IAO was a sideline event.

Don't believe me? Ok, let's look at MOST of the coverage. "How was X-ball?" "What happened in the X-ball game?" "How did England do?" Did anyone ask who won the IAO 7 man? How about the 5 man? Beyond Warpig, who's got pictures of the finals games? Point made.

Maybe - maybe not. The IAO got lots of coverage from American sites - paintballer.com has a lot of reporting - maybe the reason why coverage & interest here is kinda thin is because this is a majorly european site. Also I don't really remember that much coverage last year - a year without x-ball. Maybe it just finally took x-ball to make the IAO interesting to those who don't play it.

goose

P.S. For someone who has never really shown any interest in tournies - you sure can bitch like the rest of us "cursed tournament elitist scum"

 

[Robbo]

Couldn't have put it better Chris !!
Respect !
Pete

 

[Buddha 3]

Tyger,

I also feel that perhaps you are putting the 'blame' on the wrong people.
Richmond Italia put up the X-ball show. He organised. Okay, he made a deal with the IAO people that it was to be held at their venue, but from what I understand he was the man doing it. So I'd say that all those extras the X-ballers got, like the cooling fans and what not, were the work of Richmond. If the IAO feel short on things like those, then the IAO is to blame, not Richmond/X-ball. If your lawn is all brown and dry, whilst your neighbour's is all nice and green, is the state of yours his fault, or did you just not take care of it?
I can see how you feel about X-ball drawing away all the spectators, but again, is that X-ball's fault, or is the IAO people's for allowing X-ball to take place at their event? When you think about it, it makes sense that people come over to see X-ball. It's got the top pros, it's new, therefore it's worth a watch if you like paintball.
All the ads I've seen on the internet and in magazines for the IAO did not say anything about X-ball. The IAO was promoted as it's own event. The fact that someone else was allowed to have a simultaneous event at the same venue which turned out to be better as far as provisions for the players and such goes, can only be blamed on the IAO people, they were the ones who put up an event that was not on the same par as something that was only supposed to be 'side entertainment'.
When you go to a concert, do you blame the support act if they turn out to be better than the headliners?

 

[Baca Loco]

OK you primitive screw head, LISTEN UP

Originally posted by Tyger
Now you're trying to piss me off, aren't you? Congrats, you've managed to do that.

Ok, so my status is dependant on scoring points, huh? Ok, I'll remember that. So the money spent on entry fee does not entitle me to jack ****, huh? Ok, cool. As long as I know the rules of engagement, I won't bitch about it.

The ORIGINAL subject, before you started losing and turned this into a personal attack on the meowman, is still valid. Let's look at a few X-ball facts.
FACT : Everyone on the US Squad has a DIRECT line of influence with NATIONAL PAINTBALL. Want proof? I'll supply it.
FACT : National bought out Diablo (They say it's a lawsuit, but come on, that is so hokey even I saw through it)
FACT : NPS announced it's takeover SHORTLY after Richmond Italia announcd "X-ball".
FACT : X-ball was announced shortly before PSP / NPPL started to fight. Chuck Hendish works for National West, and is also the NPPL prez. Jerry Braun was BARELY at the X-Ball event, he's the guy behind PSP.
Look, you want more? I'll give it up. But the facts point to one thing. The "Old Boys Network" is changing, and becoming an exclusive club. And you can't get INTO that club unless you "kiss the ring". They stole the format from the USPL, blatatly, and nobody will step up to stop them becasue of a fear of retaliation.

So unless you're in with the established network, you're locked out of the "Format". And as most people are locked out, guess what? You can join the rest of us on the bleachers once you get knocked off your high horse Baca. I'll save you a cushon if you'd like. Based on what I've seen at IAO, If they have their way then they'll field the same team next year. It just shows me that they're locking out EVERYONE, making all the "outsiders" spectators.

Do I think I could play X-ball with the big boys? To sound concieted, yes. Given a little time to practtice with them, and if I really took it seriously, I'm there. Hell, if someone buys the paint I'll go to town and rip it up like you wouldn't believe. My reality is that I like playing pump, and I'm playing week to week on a TIGHT budget out of necessity. But I also know that I can do it.

I'm also the only person on this entire forum, with perhaps 3 exceptions, that has PLAYED the format before. I know my ****. I played 6 full games of the style, with a few other hard-core rules involved. I know what it takes to play it, and I know what kind of player it needs. I also know, from a players perspective, what it COSTS. There's something to be said about practical application.

Finally, if I'm paying money, MY MONEY, to play paintball at an event, I deserve, no, DEMAND the equal treatment of myself and MY TEAM as anyone else at the event. If that isn't met, then I demand restitution for services not rendered. If you're willing to be treated like **** after spending your money then you have that right. I'm not willing to settle being treated as such.

Just becasue I'm not Bob Long doesn't mean that I shuld be treated like ****.

-Tyger

PS : I expect this to be deleted around 3 AM my time, which is when the PGI folks should be rolling into the forum. So the few people who get a look at it should be entertained.

Wind him up and watch him go. Life is good. (Primitive screw head--now that's creative. I like it. )
You got the same treatment every other paying player at IAO got. Look, obviously you were there to preen and pose with no interest in competing and winning so I can see why you're upset but the point of playing the tourney game is winning. You could save yourself a lot of money if you just showed up at some big events in your bunny suit and paraded around telling everyone who you are.
As to your littany of facts, been there, said that a long time ago. I told you to ask Robo. The difference is in how we view those "facts." You need to take a longer view. The ultimate intention here has nothing to do with showing up 5 times a year at various outdoor venues to "compete" with a separate tourney.
As to your "outsiders" being relegated to spectator status if you expect to be playing X-Ball Robo is ready to help you out. Step up. Otherwise, if and/or when an X-Ball league gets established you can still play "regular" tournies.
For a guy who disavows tourney play generally you seem awfully worked up over something that is nearly irrelevant to you.

PS--nobody is deleting your posts, Tyg. They's goin' the archive.

 

[Micah]

Re: Hey Tyger....

Originally posted by Tyger
Play pump consistently for 10+ years, then we'll talk.

-Tyger

It'll make you crazy too, believe me I know ...

-Micah

 

[Northy_Delta]

my god, sometimes these threads are hard to read. I feel like i have achieved sometime from reading that thread, like ive read a book or hung a flag. shame i didnt understand any of it mmmmmmm something about pump guns, pro players, people getting in a stress and throwing teddys and a sheep......wait no im confused