WORLD CUP news! Avalanche caught cheating!

[Robbo]

Just for the record or rather just to put some people's wholly academic speculations into their rightful context, here are the facts and I means FACTS :-

Firstly, only Jeremy Salm was caught in the act, if he had any accomplices or other people were aware of what he was doing, then only those people know as everybody on that team is denying any knowledge and or complicity.
Now there could be two reasons for this, firstly, they are covering their asses and secondly, in fact, disappointingly for some on these boards, they may well be true to their word and actually be innocent and know nothing of what went down.

What anybody must do in this situation if the truth is required and harmful and ignorant speculation is to be avoided like the plague that it is, you have to rely on your personal knowledge of the guys on that team and also endeavour to talk to them regarding what happened.

Now anybody who doesn't know them well, wasn't there and hasn't talked to any of the team is just as qualified as Mrs Mills from the local bakers in Arkansas in speculating as to what happened.

If you do not fulfil any of the above criterion, then your speculation is useless and if the continued speculation constantly implies a conspiracy then this suggests more that malicious agendas are alive and well rather than genuine information or informed opinions.

Just my opinion
Robbo

 

[Tyger]

If you say so, Pete... but then....

[inflame Robbo]
This would mean that tournament players, who don't play recreational paintball, have no rights to pass judgement on camouflage, rec ball, or anything rec-ball related. I mean, you aren't there, you don't understand it, and since you didn't see a guy in camos, then what do you know?
[/inflame Robbo]

Point is that everyone is entitled to their opinion based on what they are given as information.

Also, the facts are being muddled up at this point, as if it's trying to be hushed or covered. There's 10 guys who know the truth for certain, and I don't expect them to say a word.

-Tyger

 

[Robbo]

If you say so, Pete... but then....

Originally posted by Tyger
[inflame Robbo]
This would mean that tournament players, who don't play recreational paintball, have no rights to pass judgement on camouflage, rec ball, or anything rec-ball related. I mean, you aren't there, you don't understand it, and since you didn't see a guy in camos, then what do you know?
[/inflame Robbo]

Point is that everyone is entitled to their opinion based on what they are given as information.

Also, the facts are being muddled up at this point, as if it's trying to be hushed or covered. There's 10 guys who know the truth for certain, and I don't expect them to say a word.

-Tyger

You don't get me talking about rec ball unless you start trapping off about pros and I don't hang around rec forums.

But let's take an example of the point you make regarding everybody's entitlement to an opinion based on what's 'told' to them........... and for this I will use something posted earlier in this thread

Gotcha. My fault, I was told by someone that Red owned the site. Ok, my mistake.

-Tyger

Yawn..............................

If you weren't there, if you don't know these people well and you haven't talked to them then your opinion ain't worth **** !!!

Robbo

 

[rancid]

I think I'm repeating myself but...

Firstly, only Jeremy Salm was caught in the act, if he had any accomplices or other people were aware of what he was doing, then only those people know as everybody on that team is denying any knowledge and or complicity.
Now there could be two reasons for this, firstly, they are covering their asses and secondly, in fact, disappointingly for some on these boards, they may well be true to their word and actually be innocent and know nothing of what went down.

Whether the rest of the team knew is irrelevant. Salm is a Lanche player, Lanche should take the rap. It's simple. That's what would happen in ANY other sport. Why is this different? Does the ban match the crime?

You know, we need consistency in our vision - do we want to be a sport or not, or do we want to pick and choose our rules depending on what suits and the personalities/captains of industry involved? Cos let me tell you, if this was 'Team Dweeb' then they'd have been hounded out of paintball.

Is there one rule for one, n'other for t'other?

Me? I couldn't give a monkey's. But, I guess there's a load out there who can't get the stink out of their clothes.

 

[Tyger]

If you say so, Pete... but then....

Originally posted by Robbo
You don't get me talking about rec ball unless you start trapping off about pros and I don't hang around rec forums.
...
If you weren't there, if you don't know these people well and you haven't talked to them then your opinion ain't worth **** !!!

If Robbo says so, it must be true.

But, turn back the clock.

Click here for the original thread
But as for hangin wit Tyger, playing some good wholesome Rec-wannabee Rambo - cammo my face - sniper - wussyboy - Ooohh let's attack that Tank - Ball?
Purrrrr......leeeeasse !!!!
I got balls for balls not raisins....

And I didn't touch that one. But, if Robbo said it, it must be true, right?

Ok then, my opinion doens't mean **** to you. Fine. How about the few thousand other rec-ballers who heard the story and had thier vison of tournament paintball strengthend that tourney players will "Win at all costs" and cheating is "Standard Operating Procedure"? How about the guys who are disgusted to be associated with that image of the game? How about the people who buy the gear that we see the big boys play with, feeling more than alittle cheated out of our money becasue we were sold a bill of goods. Yeah, all our opinions are worth **** because we weren't there, and we couldn't POSSIBLY understand what tournament players go through. If you say so, it must be true.

If my opinion is ****, why do you feel the need to try to squash it continuously? Look, if you want to make this YET ANOTHER personal war of "Robbo vs Tyger", I'm up for it old man. I think the people want more bloodshed in the "Rec vs Tourney" arena. Just tell me now and I'll take off the kid gloves and we can really go for it online where nothing will get done OTHER than a lot of wasted bandwidth and you may feel better for getting it out of your system.

Meanwhile, you're ignoring a major issue here. Regardless of if 'Lanche knew or not. Salm got a slap on the wrist (banned from the NPPL for a year. Wah.), the team got a slap on the wrist, and the NPPL/tournament paintball will move long as if nothing happened becasue they want to keep the illusion that everything is "ok". It's not. There's a lot of flaws in the game, and when anyone exposes them you gus scream, bitch, and yell that we have "no right" to have an opinion, tha our opinions are worth "****", and that we should just "shut the f*(k up becasue you don't play tournaments."

You wanna be on the pedistal and proclaim your the best? Act like you should have my respect if you want it. And don't have the audacity to be shocked when we, the "unwashed masses", get pissed off when your representitives actions reflect so badly on us that we feel the need to tell you to shut the f*(k up. WE have to live wiht your stunts. Ever been embarrased to be a paintball player after someone watches "Push" and sees players throwing $2500 of gun on the ground in a hissy fit? Or how about when companies put on their web pages that their gloves are engineered to be padded so you don't bruise your hands when you punch another player? Or, even better, if word of this "Salm stunt" got to the mainstream media and they plastered it as the way all paintball players play, do you think I should be happy about this? Would I still have no right to have an opinion?

And I still think it was not a solo act, you can't convince me otherwise at this point. All the screaming has managed to do is make me believe it more becasue certain facts are being obscured by people who were there. Hell, the first 'defender' of Avalance said Salm was on the verge of being cut and was a psychological liability without mentioning that Salm was the CAPTAIN.

Time will show if I'm wrong or right.

-Tyger

 

[Buddha 3]

Tyger,

I doubt if anyone is saying that you can not have an opinion. What some people are saying is that you seem to be presenting things as facts, while in reality they are only your opinion, based on the information you have. I don't think anyone wants to deny you the right to have an opinion, but the way you present them rubs some people the wrong way. After all, you said it yourself, only ten people really know, whereas earlier you were pushing your theories as though they were the gospel. I think that's what most people are arguing against.
As for me, I don't agree with some of the conclusions you have come to, but I'll be the first to admit that you have made me think.

 

[Robbo]

If you say so, Pete... but then....

Originally posted by Tyger


If Robbo says so, it must be true.

But, turn back the clock.



And I didn't touch that one. But, if Robbo said it, it must be true, right?

Ok then, my opinion doens't mean **** to you. Fine. How about the few thousand other rec-ballers who heard the story and had thier vison of tournament paintball strengthend that tourney players will "Win at all costs" and cheating is "Standard Operating Procedure"? How about the guys who are disgusted to be associated with that image of the game? How about the people who buy the gear that we see the big boys play with, feeling more than alittle cheated out of our money becasue we were sold a bill of goods. Yeah, all our opinions are worth **** because we weren't there, and we couldn't POSSIBLY understand what tournament players go through. If you say so, it must be true.

If my opinion is ****, why do you feel the need to try to squash it continuously? Look, if you want to make this YET ANOTHER personal war of "Robbo vs Tyger", I'm up for it old man. I think the people want more bloodshed in the "Rec vs Tourney" arena. Just tell me now and I'll take off the kid gloves and we can really go for it online where nothing will get done OTHER than a lot of wasted bandwidth and you may feel better for getting it out of your system.

Meanwhile, you're ignoring a major issue here. Regardless of if 'Lanche knew or not. Salm got a slap on the wrist (banned from the NPPL for a year. Wah.), the team got a slap on the wrist, and the NPPL/tournament paintball will move long as if nothing happened becasue they want to keep the illusion that everything is "ok". It's not. There's a lot of flaws in the game, and when anyone exposes them you gus scream, bitch, and yell that we have "no right" to have an opinion, tha our opinions are worth "****", and that we should just "shut the f*(k up becasue you don't play tournaments."

You wanna be on the pedistal and proclaim your the best? Act like you should have my respect if you want it. And don't have the audacity to be shocked when we, the "unwashed masses", get pissed off when your representitives actions reflect so badly on us that we feel the need to tell you to shut the f*(k up. WE have to live wiht your stunts. Ever been embarrased to be a paintball player after someone watches "Push" and sees players throwing $2500 of gun on the ground in a hissy fit? Or how about when companies put on their web pages that their gloves are engineered to be padded so you don't bruise your hands when you punch another player? Or, even better, if word of this "Salm stunt" got to the mainstream media and they plastered it as the way all paintball players play, do you think I should be happy about this? Would I still have no right to have an opinion?

And I still think it was not a solo act, you can't convince me otherwise at this point. All the screaming has managed to do is make me believe it more becasue certain facts are being obscured by people who were there. Hell, the first 'defender' of Avalance said Salm was on the verge of being cut and was a psychological liability without mentioning that Salm was the CAPTAIN.

Time will show if I'm wrong or right.

-Tyger

All that above (and to me it all smacks of 'the lady doth protest....) could have been better left to your last line, 'Time will show if I am wrong or right'
In fact, take out all that other crap, leave the last line in and people might begin to respect your brevity and reluctance to indulge in idle, ignorant speculation.
Your last line (and should have been your only line) says it all !!!
Robbo
PS Tyger, I am shaking in my boots at the proposition of clashing intellects with you !!
PPS TJ, I am breathing deep...honestly !!!

 

[manike]

There are very few facts, and a huge number of rumours.

People who were very close the situation, and whom I trust implicitly, were giving different stories and it's all just far too complicated to be able to decipher. And I was there trying to do just that. I was even watching that game, but didn't see a lot of the stuff people are talking about now

There are rumours that others knew and from some information there may even be someone outside of the 10 who can shed light on it all. The guy he borrowed the gun from...

Until it does or even if it doesn't come out in the wash, I think we are doing a dis service to those that didn't know about it (and I have a lot of friends on that team) to be implying they did, and to be spreading such rumours.

manike

 

[Tyger]

Originally posted by Buddha 3
Tyger,

I doubt if anyone is saying that you can not have an opinion. What some people are saying is that you seem to be presenting things as facts, while in reality they are only your opinion, based on the information you have.

I've presented the given facte 5+ times in this thread. I've drawn my conclusions based on those facts, and my knowledge of human nature and paintball in general. AND I've presented my opinion as given as my opinion.

Pete is just trying to discredit me, again, for gods only knows what reasons. Sometimes I think it's becasue he still blindly follows, sometimes I think it's just knee-jerk reactions.

And Pete, instead of touching the poitns I make, yo slam me personally and avoid the points. Ok, I know where you stand, and what your intent is. I'll ignore you now.

-Tyger

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by Tyger
And Pete, instead of touching the poitns I make, yo slam me personally and avoid the points. Ok, I know where you stand, and what your intent is. I'll ignore you now.

-Tyger

Thank God for That !!!!!!!!