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Will this trend sweep the entire Paintball world?

Hotpoint

Pompey Paintballer
Originally posted by Baca Loco
No, just small, backward islands will leap at the prospects tho it will soon devolve into street brawls as gangs of middle-aged beer-swilling fooligans fight over rights to just a handful of big cities once they all realize the big sponsor scores and PR attach only to the largest urban areas.
Yep because only London and Manchester have Football Teams... and only one each :p

Actually smaller cities tend to have more social cohesiveness and, dare I say, tribal identities. It is this kind of group feeling that best promotes local sponsorship

And say what you like about "small backwards islands". It could be worse, they could be somebody elses former colonies who only gained their independence because of the French :D
 

stongle

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Originally posted by Hotpoint
Yep because only London and Manchester have Football Teams... and only one each :p
Yep, but the potential sponsorship base is several orders of magnitude larger for Football than Paintball. Two many teams from a geographic area and everybody gets a smaller piece of the pie. Of course you can have 20 teams representing London, but lest we forget that only the Big teams are going to be sponsorship draws everybody else gets butt kiss. What you think that Leyton Orient gets the same sponsorship as Arsenal?

If you strongly believe that you need to be named geographically do so, I can see why the likes of Tigers are now the London Tigers, they are the top team in that area. They are fully deserving of outside sponsorship and play the game in a way that is deserving of this, likewise some of the so-manc teams possibly K2. If teams do this so they can compete in a "restricted tournament series", max props to em, or feels that geographic cohesiveness makes them stronger as unit fine do so. Lincoln Storm a great bunch of chaps, certainly seem to benefit from this. There's a lot of psychology in a name I don't understand, this is for you as individuals to decide. Each team should make a decision about this for themselves, it's the tenuous argument that some people are using to proclaim what seems to be the "second coming of the messiah", or that this is what will make UK balling popular.

My issue is with the wild assumption that you can assume the identity of a place name, and some how be entitled to the Nirvana of Free Balling hence with and the glories of the media. It's a fantasy. The economics don't add up. I might not have been balling for long, but I can tell you that Money makes the world go round, or that it puts the "bullets in yer gat". And Money wants a return on it's investment and that means results (and results were it matters). It's scientific or psychological fact that the worlds most successful people are those with the ability to think laterally, or out of the box. Stop thinking as ballers, or what you as ballers think you need yourselves. Think about what the wider public wants or will want to invest in.

Some people post as if they're going to be the next big extreme sportspeople, people are going to be TV stars, Vodafone's going to be emblazoned across our shirts etc etc. Well take a pill (or rather stop taking em), and a reality check cos you've completely missed the real issue at the heart of the matter. No matter how you dress up the teams, 7 man Sup Air Paintball is BORING to watch for the uninitiated. If you think the way we ball in the UK is worthy of TV coverage, I amazed how you'd view the likes of X-Ball. You can bet your b*llox to a barn dance if the likes of Dick Clark ain't putting X-ball on TV in it's current format and players ain't getting big money contracts, something's missing. It could be the format, the players, I don' know I ain't a media mogul, but he is. I mean I don't condone cheating but what Lassoya has done and how he plays certainly makes better TV than "hang them there wipers high". Look at what Fox is going to do, show the Highlights of the NPPL on 6 shows. If a whole series of the NPPL (or the highest evolution of 7 man ball, with the worlds best teams), only gets 6 shows, and not shown in the UK, that to me suggests there isn't a market for it here in it's current format.

Take this down a level and the only good games to watch at Campaign were the Pro games with the Likes of Dynasty, Launche, Strange, Ton Ton's, Legion, Nexus etc. Take a good look at these guys, what they do on field and how they compare to you as an average baller. You might find that Baca for all his xenophobia ( ;) ), makes the most salient point on this thread (I think, cos his irony is frankly on a different planet).

And on outside assistance. Lets be honest when we say "outside sponsorship", it's usually from players who have their own firms which may be loosely related.

I mean Hey Monkey Love a non-geographically linked team (or if you prefer Monkey Love from Chafford Hundred, Harlow, Islington, Portsmouth, Enfield, Sutton, Ealing and Caterham etc etc), actually has an outside Sponsor, not a "discount deal". All our Batteries, Tools and miscellaneous sh*t ballers lose or need, comes to us gratis (you go and buy 36 9v and 48 AA's Duracell's for each Millennium and see how much that costs). You know why, Cos my old fart runs an Engineering firm.

I'm not ripping the teams who choose to name or compete for a given area it's the attitude of people who want to take the "Moral high ground" (sic), if you bothered to read what I've written on this issue you would actually see that I've only questioned some of the claims of WHY they did this. If some teams want to go the regional route do that, but don't feel the need to elevate yourselves above those who want to concentrate on CPL or Milleniums, or just simply being the best AM B, A or Pro. These are my views and mine only, probably not shared by the whole of the team, so they don't represent the Love.

But I will say this the Love went to the Severe cup on Sunday, and handed out some whoop ass against well established teams (ahich ain't bad for what is in reality a 6 month old squad). We want to represent our existing supporters with results by whacking teams up the pecking order. By lifting cups and playing game is how we feel best repays the long and tireless support from the likes of Severe, Extreme Rage, Smartparts, Tourney Park (Yorkie) and XR Fasteners, not because we are "owed". It's all about the game, get that.........

Sorry Pinki, I'll get me coat.
 

Hotpoint

Pompey Paintballer
Re: Re: Will this trend sweep the entire Paintball world?

Originally posted by stongle
Yep, but the potential sponsorship base is several orders of magnitude larger for Football than Paintball.
And the costs involved in running a Paintball Team several orders of magnitude smaller... chiefly because we don't get paid enormous salaries, or indeed any salary at all

Originally posted by stongle

Two many teams from a geographic area and everybody gets a smaller piece of the pie.
When the day comes that there are enough paintball teams for them to argue over turf I'll be a happy man. There's probably less than 1500 of us playing tournament in the UK

Originally posted by stongle

it's the tenuous argument that some people are using to proclaim what seems to be the "second coming of the messiah", or that this is what will make UK balling popular
I don't know about "popular" but location based teams will probably help raise our media profile. Think about the drivel that gets into your town paper just because it involves (a tiny percentage of) the local population. Anybody who sees the PA League as a universal panacea to our problems as a sport is talking out of their backside but it will be of some benefit in our ongoing struggle for recognition... however minor

Originally posted by stongle

My issue is with the wild assumption that you can assume the identity of a place name, and some how be entitled to the Nirvana of Free Balling hence with and the glories of the media. It's a fantasy.
Sorry stongle but that's a strawman analogy because I haven't seen anybody claim that anyway

Originally posted by stongle

The economics don't add up. I might not have been balling for long, but I can tell you that Money makes the world go round, or that it puts the "bullets in yer gat". And Money wants a return on it's investment and that means results (and results were it matters).
Dynasty gets fantastic results but aren't known in the mainstream because nobody has heard of, or identifies with, them. We have to be in the media spotlight first before results matter

Originally posted by stongle

It's scientific or psychological fact that the worlds most successful people are those with the ability to think laterally, or out of the box. Stop thinking as ballers, or what you as ballers think you need yourselves. Think about what the wider public wants or will want to invest in.
To an extent you seem to be as guilty of this as those you criticise sorry

Originally posted by stongle

And on outside assistance. Lets be honest when we say "outside sponsorship", it's usually from players who have their own firms which may be loosely related.
That's the problem we're trying to rectify

Originally posted by stongle

I'm not ripping the teams who choose to name or compete for a given area it's the attitude of people who want to take the "Moral high ground" (sic), if you bothered to read what I've written on this issue you would actually see that I've only questioned some of the claims of WHY they did this.
Who do you think is taking anything resembling a moral stance here?

There is a lot of politics at play at the moment. Some of it appears to be nasty and a lot of it downright puerile (this is not directed at you stongle btw)

Originally posted by stongle
If some teams want to go the regional route do that, but don't feel the need to elevate yourselves above those who want to concentrate on CPL or Milleniums,
Once again who do you think is trying to elevate themselves?

Excellent debate by the way :)
 

stongle

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Ok Hotpoint, good points, just tad busy at the mo, but response in progress. Damn these open plan offices. This needs research.;)
 

stongle

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Had a quick trail for some quotes, that I beleieve representative of some attitudes:

“we'll see next year won't we. I know who my money is on.”

“Roll on the PA league, if you don't like the idea, don't sign up. If you're happy to stay with a "Sunday league" type sport then that's fine.”

“of course Stongl Manchester only has one football team, but with you being from the south maybe you have only heard of United. and got the winners on prime time TV, which is more than any Millenium event as managed.”

“but what relevence has Dynasty got to anyone, you could call them Paintballs world champions but nobody knows where the fcuk they come from. Everyone knows Manchester, it makes sense and in my eyes raises Manchesters efforts above Dynasty's because they have put Paintballing on the map for their location.”

“winning all the Millenium/NPPL/PSP events will only get you your 15 minutes of fame, not the lifetimes recognition.”
“We had more interest from one article about our PA cup team than anything else. For gods sake, paintball got on prime time BBC (they think it's all over) because of the PA cup............. think about it, outside of yout team, who really gives a toss about match results? now strap on your town name, and suddenly paintball is starting to be viewed as a proper sport.”

“It will be as good as the PA cup, And yes we are talking about serious TV interest not some collage media group working towards a test.
New format, New rules, New teams, = New begining !”

”This is the only way forward for paintball, i think that affiliating teams with towns/citys is a must for a new sport.”

“However there is a change coming now dont get me wrong it's not a change like coming out of the woods and on to sup-air it's so much more than that”


These are a few quotes lifted from debates around the PA cup and Geographic team name, the constant running thread is that this is the revolution in progress. I could probably trail for some more, but I don’t have all day I’m afraid. I think it illustrates that some people think that they are now above Millenniums, NPPL, CPL etc. But the standard of play cannot possibly be as high.

Look I’ve said it before, a regional competition would be good, but it’s not a revolution. It may drum up some local interest, but not in all areas. Look at the trouble some people have drumming up interest (Tom Tom). If I was a local sponsor I’d want something in return for my cash, I’m not a charity. If I was in for giving away cash to Charity, there’s a Million other more worthy causes. Sponsorship always requires an implicit return. It’s just a local interest blip, I think long term, you are chipping away at public perception for sure (and I’ve not said it’s bad thing), I don’t think a lot of the above quotee’s have the same patience as yourself, and will be in it for the long run.

I mean to be fair you can read quote’s a little over literally which maybe both you and I are a little guilty off, but there is a definite trend in the direction I have seen. I do think that poring scorn on the achievements of Dynasty and the teams in Millenniums implied or otherwise, is in some way discrediting the effort put in by many players teams and their current sponsors (although that’s simply my opinion).

Revolution will come from Format Change and the way the game is played. To make the game truly exciting and watch able, it has to become more extreme or athletic. Big Game / Re-enactment type events would probably make better TV than a lot of current Tounies.

I’m not saying to teams don’t be regional, or be named after towns, but it is not the answers to the UK’s balling problems as you also so rightly point out. It will be the standard of play and competition or even lifestyle that will drive paintball forward in my opinion. Unfortunately this belief appears to have made me and (wrongly by extension my teammates), as popular as Herpes. A lot of it at the moment is superstition and personal belief we have little to base potential returns on as nothing similar has gone before hand. I’ve put my argument for what I believe, others can put they’re own.
 
Having watched this an' other thredz from afar, there is just a lil touch of arrogance and more than a hint of 'burn tha heretic' if anyone dares question tha wisdom of the geographical crew...though I must agree that Manchester has done more for Paintball than Dynasty ever has or indeed ever will.:rolleyes:
 

Hotpoint

Pompey Paintballer
Originally posted by stongle
“we'll see next year won't we. I know who my money is on.”
Could have come from either side really. Not all that removed from your own affirmation that "It will be the standard of play and competition or even lifestyle that will drive paintball forward in my opinion" in that it's just an opinion

Originally posted by stongle
“Roll on the PA league, if you don't like the idea, don't sign up. If you're happy to stay with a "Sunday league" type sport then that's fine.”
Certainly overbearing and bombastic but not exactly a claim to moral superiority

Originally posted by stongle
“of course Stongl Manchester only has one football team, but with you being from the south maybe you have only heard of United. and got the winners on prime time TV, which is more than any Millenium event as managed.”
Statement of fact... unfortunate but true.

Originally posted by stongle
“but what relevence has Dynasty got to anyone, you could call them Paintballs world champions but nobody knows where the fcuk they come from. Everyone knows Manchester, it makes sense and in my eyes raises Manchesters efforts above Dynasty's because they have put Paintballing on the map for their location.”
Once again bombastic but again with a element of truth. You do need some sort of tribal identity to really gain attention. Think about the screaming crowds watching the X-Ball matches at the millenium series. I watched England/Germany at Bitburg surrounded by screaming Brits and Germans who were devoting far more passion to the game than they would if it hadn't been national sides

Originally posted by stongle
“winning all the Millenium/NPPL/PSP events will only get you your 15 minutes of fame, not the lifetimes recognition.”

“We had more interest from one article about our PA cup team than anything else. For gods sake, paintball got on prime time BBC (they think it's all over) because of the PA cup............. think about it, outside of yout team, who really gives a toss about match results? now strap on your town name, and suddenly paintball is starting to be viewed as a proper sport.”
Again unfortunate but true. How much media coveridge did the Campaign Cup get this year?

Originally posted by stongle
”This is the only way forward for paintball, i think that affiliating teams with towns/citys is a must for a new sport.”
Apparently the Tigers agree... as does the CPL it seems :p

Originally posted by stongle
However there is a change coming now dont get me wrong it's not a change like coming out of the woods and on to sup-air it's so much more than that”
Wishful thinking but again not a claim to moral superiority

Originally posted by stongle
I think it illustrates that some people think that they are now above Millenniums, NPPL, CPL etc. But the standard of play cannot possibly be as high
It illustrates nothing of the sort. You're just misreading between the lines. They don't think they're "above" Millenniums/NPPL they just think they might get more media attention

Originally posted by stongle

I don’t think a lot of the above quotee’s have the same patience as yourself, and will be in it for the long run.
They must have ripped the Q section out of my dictionary because I don't know the meaning of the word "quit"... and anybody who's seen me run already knows I don't know the meaning of the word "quick" :D

Originally posted by stongle
I do think that poring scorn on the achievements of Dynasty and the teams in Millenniums implied or otherwise, is in some way discrediting the effort put in by many players teams and their current sponsors (although that’s simply my opinion).
I don't think anyone was really pouring scorn just stating unpalatable facts, however I cannot claim to being able to read minds so you may be right (perhaps the originators of the quotes can add their two cents)
 
Originally posted by TJ Lambini
Having watched this an' other thredz from afar, there is just a lil touch of arrogance and more than a hint of 'burn tha heretic' if anyone dares question tha wisdom of the geographical crew...though I must agree that Manchester has done more for Paintball than Dynasty ever has or indeed ever will.:rolleyes:

But if they do well you might see paintball glorified in the Manchester Evening news.

Just imagine our wonderful sport of paintball on page 42. Between the article about Mrs Smiths cat Tiggles who was rescued from a tree on wednesday and the advert for orthopedic shoes.

Wow
 

Hotpoint

Pompey Paintballer
Originally posted by John[SAD]
Just imagine our wonderful sport of paintball on page 42. Between the article about Mrs Smiths cat Tiggles who was rescued from a tree on wednesday and the advert for orthopedic shoes.
Better than nothing... and from little acorns grow mighty oaks

Today the Manchester Evening Post... tomorrow the Manchester Guardian :p

or rather...

Tomorrow the Manchester Evening Post... the day after tomorow the Manchester Guardian :D


Edited to Add

Kill, Burn, persecute the heretic
 
Hotpoint on drugs again...

Once again bombastic but again with a element of truth. You do need some sort of tribal identity to really gain attention. Think about the screaming crowds watching the X-Ball matches at the millenium series. I watched England/Germany at Bitburg surrounded by screaming Brits and Germans who were devoting far more passion to the game than they would if it hadn't been national sides

>>>You don't think a Nexus Vs Tontons final at a Millennium wouldn't generate tha same - no, more - intensity?




quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by stongle
“winning all the Millenium/NPPL/PSP events will only get you your 15 minutes of fame, not the lifetimes recognition.”

Again unfortunate but true.

>>>Damn, you're right - tha NPPL didn't just announce a series of shows on Fox Sports did they? Lang and Greenspan aren't on their way to becoming tha Tony Hawks and Matt Hoffmans of their generation...