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When is an Open Bolt gun not an Open Bolt gun?

manike

INCEPTIONDESIGNS.COM
Jul 9, 2001
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Cloud 9
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Originally posted by Red_Merkin
since the matrix and shocker 03 are the same gun the shocker 03 is neither unique or closed bolt.
How dare you say such things... you mean you can't spot the difference in these two pictures :eek: (Pictures stolen again from Acsik but I flipped one to be the same way around...)





Did you see the difference? Yes well done everyone, the top one is a matrix bolt and the bottom is a shocker bolt... or err.. the top one is ahh feck it. :D One is golden in colour and one is black and silver...

Originally posted by Red_Merkin
only low pressure high air volume helps increase accuracy.
Easy now, and you were doing so well. Don't get carried away there :) . Oh and you may want to talk to Phantom owners about that... nice blast of 850psi CO2 there...

Stick with what you were saying...

Originally posted by Red_Merkin
or as one wize man says, it's all fecking bollocks.
 

Red_Merkin

IMHO
Jul 9, 2001
1,418
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Easy now, and you were doing so well. Don't get carried away there . Oh and you may want to talk to Phantom owners about that... nice blast of 850psi CO2 there...
Phantoms arn't all that accurate. and you have to pump them, what's that all about?
 

Xenos

New Member
Aug 16, 2002
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had this conversation the other day

Originally posted by ericostani
on what makes the matrix a closed bolt gun!? and is there any gun other than the cocker which is truly closed bolt.....what about the old shocker?
and i lost a 5p bet with sjt19 that the matrix is 'closed' bolt like the cocker, cos after what i've read i thought it was.
The old shocker is definately closed bolt.
 

TOOLE

Banned
Feb 27, 2003
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Originally posted by pgaglio
I believe every last word that comes from Smart Parts. I also believed everything said by Joseph Goebels.
and i beleive everythig said by george bush and tony blair!
 

Collier

Arsed?
Jan 2, 2002
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had this conversation the other day

Originally posted by ericostani
on what makes the matrix a closed bolt gun!? and is there any gun other than the cocker which is truly closed bolt.....what about the old shocker?
and i lost a 5p bet with sjt19 that the matrix is 'closed' bolt like the cocker, cos after what i've read i thought it was.
The Excalibur is one of thee only true electro pnematic closed bolt markers, in which 2 seperate solenoids and rams are used.

Paul
:)

What Edit??? :confused:
 

Doc Nickel

New Member
Nick- The point here is that there is no difference between open and closed bolt.

Every marker made, from the Splatmaster and Rapide, up to the IR3, A4 and everything in between, fires when the bolt is closed. All of them. Every single one.

That is, after all, the point of the bolt- to close off the breech, so that the burst of compressed gas can do it's job, propelling the ball down the barrel.

Yes, there's a few designs, like the old Nova, the ICE Epic and the Alien doohickey, that don't use a "bolt" per se, but the point is the same- they have some way of closing off the breech to that the air pushes the ball down the barrel, and doesn't escape elsewhere- out the loader neck, for example.

The key here is that SP has been actively promoting the idea of closed-bolt being "better" somehow, than open bolt. They've been saying this for years, pretty much since the first Shocker first came out (that and how much better low pressure was.)

And now, since they couldn't get the closed-bolt version of the new Shocker 03 working (at least well and reliably) they went with a very-close knockoff of the Matrix, and made it open bolt.

And so now they're looking at six or seven years of closed-bolt hype, and trying to release an open-bolt gun against that. It would have been one thing if the marker had a different name, but this is the Shocker, the low-pressure, closed bolt, shoots-a-mile-further marker.

So true to form, the Gardners invent yet more hype to cover the details- "Seal Forward Technology" is a newspeak way of saying "closed bolt emulator" like BE used to hype the Rainmaker with, and was used for the Angel for a short while. SFT simply means the bolt moves forward to close off the breech just before firing, just exactly like every other marker on the planet does.

Spyders, in fact, use "seal forward technology", as do the old VM-68s and 68 Specials. Oh, and 'Mags, and Illustrators, Golden Eagles, Sydarms, Matrixes, Angels, Firestorms, Black Draguns, GT 99s, Jokers, Infernos, Shutters, Poisons, Raiders, Vipers, M98s and A5s, STXs, Piranhas, Rebels and PT Enforcers.

It's an interesting look into how the Gardners' minds work.

The Excalibur is the only true electro pnematic closed bolt marker, in which 2 seperate solenoids and rams are used.
-Well, except for the already-mentioned Sandridge 'Cocker (which has two air solenoids, one to run the cocking ram and another to run the sear ram) as well as both the RaceGun and E-Blade kits (which have one air solenoid for the cocking ram and one mechanical solenoid to trip the sear) and both versions of the original Shocker (PVI and SP, both of which had an integrated bolt/ram run by one solenoid, and were fired by a second solenoid.)

So sure, other than all those, the Excal is the only one. :D

Doc.