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stevej

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Jul 6, 2001
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Old i know though I would think its a Cultural Problem not just a site problem if the demand was there to do recball then people would do it. How many times do you get stopped in the street to play nowadays all the time. Maybe there are too many sites in the Uk of a lower quality that wouldnt attract people to want to know more about the game thats probably where the industry investment needs to go where people play. Some people run their site as a labour of love a lot do it for the cash and often the cash ones are C$%* the guys in the industry know who they are

We lose young players early as well. Kids go out get pissed at 18 probably earlier in the states its 21 and everyone drives earlier and its cheaper and they have more disposable income

In the states Kids get to 21 more chance of having a good job and being able to afford to do both or by then are more committed either way people play longer and there is more chance of them bringing other people in it. In the Uk, well paintball is well out of it by then as people quit at 18 and How many times do you see kids quit at 18 19 because they want to do other things, have their weekends or its money or its a hassle to get to because they want to go out on a Saturday night.

This on top of Land being cheaper, a gun culture and more people to choose from means we are at a big disadvantage. You want to compete with them only ways as it is are a British version of the RL or just one pro team, both likely right or you have to go further afield.

Acadamies are fine if money is invested in them and all the players are of a good playing potential to breed development and drive each other on but require an awful lot of commitment from people over a long time and you need the talented kids to start with.

As for raising the price of paint For a talented kid to improve to a level to get to play for say Nexus after three years in the game they would probably would have needed to have shot a box every couple of weeks at the very least in training on top of tournaments now some kids dont have money when they are at school or college they have parents who have a heart attack at the sound of the money it costs to play and those with part time jobs well it takes a while working mundane jobs stacking shelves or whatever at 5.50 an hour in order to afford the 40 quid or so to go train every week. Plenty of time to get sick of it and its that age group that produces the new generation of ballers.
 

weedave

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Jan 16, 2002
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Originally posted by Robbo

To rebuild Nexus I have had to go outside the UK to recruit.
Most of you guys know me and you know how proud I am to be English and nothing would have given me greater pleasure than to go to the NPPL with an all Brit squad but it proved impossible. I have now got two foreigners on board and another I am awaiting an answer from, believe me, I didn’t wanna go down that road but I had to.

What about more trials? You've produced some quality players from trials before, do you think trials were a waste of time or are you considering going down that path?

I assume it would not cost that much to host(if anything at all, but I never have so wouldn't know) and you could possibly find a player or a few players that you believe can benefit the team and strengthen any weakness the team may have.

Dave
 

Lovetone

Peter Pan of Paintball
Feb 25, 2005
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Originally posted by weedave
What about more trials? You've produced some quality players from trials before, do you think trials were a waste of time or are you considering going down that path?

I assume it would not cost that much to host(if anything at all, but I never have so wouldn't know) and you could possibly find a player or a few players that you believe can benefit the team and strengthen any weakness the team may have.

Dave
Totally off topic but that makes me wonder just how godlike you have to be to play for Nexus. Were many brits apprached and declined or was it just a lack of "talent" capable of performing for Nexus?
 

jeff

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Jul 10, 2001
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I think the one thing that Nexus lacked in the last couple of seasons was "experienced" players.


You could find some good ballers from a trial but finding them with the experience....well that is going to be hard.

Look at Nexus' first season. Jack Wood, Mark Toye and Ledz on the team and look at the difference. Those guys brought experience to the team and were a big part of the success Nexus had back then.
 

gfresh666

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Nov 3, 2001
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US Attitude

Pete brought up the diffrence' s in UK teams vs US teams..... and the mental outlook of us players.............. I will be the first to say that the teams at the top of the game in the us have a better mental attitude about training , and again this goe's along with the us culture of college mentality............ The team I coach with trains 2 weekends a month but each player has to have a level and standard of fittness wich is all about mental discipline to keep in shape , most of the team will practice the off weekends even if is just drills. But these guys are paid to play and they come with the attitude enough party lets go to work.

The average weekend practice paint consumption is a 100 to 120
box's of paint ................ less maybe only 80 if it is all drills.

But how and were can the serious uk teams find this amount of sponsership ? Easy you have to compete with the best in the us
circuit. Pete showed with Nexus that level of comitment has to be taken to the next level and the Tigers came up and showed that uk ball has still a lot to offer.
Tournamnet players all ways want the better deal but it has to earned and having run a site back in the day I know from experience that you can not run a site on the just tournament play you need the involvement of the average punter.
 

Syd (NSPL)

NSPL and Pr0to KotH
Aug 30, 2001
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Hmmm. I'm joining in this debate a little late, but it is perhaps the most interesting thing I've read in a while. Also, because it was my event and the talented players (or lack of them) that we're present at that particular event that inspired Pete to start all this, I feel I need to reply. In addition, this subject is something that is very close to my heart, as a tournament organiser and someone who is driven to seeing paintball grow in this country. So, bare with me, this may be a long post...

First of all, to counter-balance some of the negativity in this thread, I would like to suggest to Pete that he attends some more domestic events before coming to a final conclusion about the talent level we have. There are some very driven and talented players out there and it is improving all the time. Having said that, Pete is absolutely right with his original observations and his explanation about what he believes is causing the problem. The issues are many and a lot has to be done if paintball is ever going to enjoy a sport-like environment at the top level. The funny thing is, if it doesn't get to that level then the whole industry looses out and that is something I feel many people, site-owners in particular, don't grasp.

If tournament paintball becomes the sport so many of us want it to and enjoys a good level of public interest, whether that's through TV, spectators, or whatever, then what do site-owners think will happen? They will get more business - pure and simple. So, let's have some vision here and work towards the future of our businesses, not sit content with the pickings we have at the moment.

Rather than focus on what the problems are, because I think that has already been pretty well done here, I would like to focus on what is being done at the moment and what some of you reading this may be able to get involved in to help change things. The winds of change may be already blowing - bare with me whilst I explain.

OK, first off we have unification at international level. Whether this actually happens or not is anyones guess, but if it does it has to result in a more professional sport. Unified rules, gun rules, etc. Let's just assume for the minute that this all happens - I'm an optimist.

Second, the Pro Tour. I think this format and its place in UK paintball has been greatly underappreciated. The Pro Tour is a fantastic conception and does/will do so much for UK paintball. First of all, it gives the domestic teams something to aim for when competing in their respective leagues. Second (and more importantly), it will educate them. I have heard so many comments about the teams have have made Pro Tour for next season and how they will struggle. Great! That means they will develop - or at least, one would hope so. When faced with better competition, they either work harder or fall flat on their faces. Most will work harder. If they are then demoted back down to their domestic league the following season - even better! They take a higher level of play back to that league and more domestic teams are promoted up to Pro Tour to learn their lessons. Its win-win. Well done to Campaign Promotions for making the Pro Tour happen - it's importance should not be ignored.

Third, the domestic tournaments themselves. More and more, we are working together guys. The PA instigated this in 2004. For reasons I wont go in to, the initial plans that were agreed upon did not work out, but everyone is still trying to work together. And this year, their seems to be even more desire to co-operate and do what is in the best interest of the tournament paintball scene in this country. Those chickens haven't hatched yet, but last week's meeting was a great success and we should see some interesting developments very soon. Finally, on domestic tournaments, the standard of events is constantly improving - good for players, good for spectators, and more.

Fourth, another much overlooked format. The King of the Hill. The UK Master and NSPL King of the Hill events have been a roaring success, bringing more new players and teams in to our game than any other vehicle I have seen. I have a personal goal of nationalising this format for the upcoming season and applying a similar model to the NCPA (stateside) to it. The vision is to encourage sites to run their own King of the Hill events, alongside the existing events, and draw upon the resources tournament organisers already have in place to make the events happen. Make them Field Paint Only at a reasonable price (as all tournaments should be) and they become attractive prospects to site owners. Get the marketing and promotion right, and they would bring an influx of new players to the competition scene.

Finally, we have Walk-Ons and site owners attitude to this under-developed market. I believe the EPF and UKPSF are already looking in to this one and firmly believe that the UKPSF is the only body to help educate site owners on this. I will be asking to have the issue discussed at the next UKPSF conference and any industry figureheads that would like to put on a talk about this issue are invited to contact me before I take my request to Steve.

Only by showing site-owners a viable business model for running walk-ons can we convince them to take advantage of this alternative revenue source and in turn fill the final gap in advancing players from Rec-Ball to International Play. The rest, I believe, is on course and time will give us the results we are looking for.

The only thing I think I have left out is the wholesale industry and its attitude to giving just about anyone a trade account, but that one is outside my scope and responsibilities as a domestic tournament organiser, but hopefully is on the verge of some changes too.

So, hopefully that shows that not all is doom and gloom at the moment. Although we still have a long way to go, I believe the wheels have been set in motion.
 

Robbo

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Jul 5, 2001
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Weedave I thought about it Dave but I gotta say, I have to hit the ground running in the 2006 NPPL and cannot afford to have guys on board that need to be trained up.
We have talent over here but guys who strut their stuff in the Pro League, PA and even Millennium soon find out their shortcomings when they get their asses on the NPPL scene, it separates the men from the boys in that sense.
And so, I had to go for players who had a proven track record of expertise and who I was confident could step up to the top level.

Lovetone Godlike?, you kiddin’ me? How about just being able to play this game at the top level and a willingness to commit to training and dedicated enough to train midweek and a willingness to listen and learn, hardly godlike, more like ‘serious’.
I did offer a spot to one UK player who declined as I think he wanted other things out of paintball.


Jeff I honestly don't think that was our problem, our drop in performance did coincide with the likes of Jack, Mark and Chrissie leaving but that's all it was, a coincidence, because most of my guys had been playing in the cauldron of NPPL for 3 years now as well as Millennium ball for considerably longer, so any experience shortfalls would have more than been made up for in that sense.
Nah, that wasn't our problem mate, our problem was much more deep rooted and more subtle than that.
 

Lovetone

Peter Pan of Paintball
Feb 25, 2005
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Originally posted by Robbo


Lovetone Godlike?, you kiddin’ me? How about just being able to play this game at the top level and a willingness to commit to training and dedicated enough to train midweek and a willingness to listen and learn, hardly godlike, more like ‘serious’.
I did offer a spot to one UK player who declined as I think he wanted other things out of paintball.
i only meant it in a tongue in cheek way
hard to beleive you couldnt find anyone
then again i guess its not just what you want its what they can give and whether they want to...
 

Robbo

Owner of this website
Jul 5, 2001
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Originally posted by Lovetone
i only meant it in a tongue in cheek way
hard to beleive you couldnt find anyone
then again i guess its not just what you want its what they can give and whether they want to...
You are right, I find it hard to believe too, we just seem to be devoid of ambition and drive :rolleyes:
 

pestilence

www.ppemporium.com
Jul 6, 2001
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Yo Robbo -

If Brit ballers are not in the same league as the states - and therfor you have had to change the roster to headhunt established players; dosen't this go against your founding principles of founding Nexus in the first place? (if me memory serves correctly..) - that msut ahve been a difficult decision.

I understand why you have been forced down this road, but cant you scout UK talent into a feeder team like you had before? I understand this is a drain on resource, but what are your international players costing you to recruit??

Curiously

P.