UK Disgrace

[Robbo]

I seem to be missing something here when I read a lot of these posts because when I see some people remarking about the expense of playing paintball (and I am sure for them personally they are being 100% honest and it is a real problem for them) I then look abroad across the rest of Europe.

I think the UK is the 4th richest nation in the world (per head) and if you try to reconcile this information with the fact other European nations who are a lot worse off than we and yet they churn out not only more, but better teams than us (across the board) then I think we got a problem peculiar to us that transcends any knee jerk defense of expense.

Think about this point guys because it's important we nail this problem down.
And to be honest, I wish it were just a matter of expense because that means if the economy lifts then it would also mean we would have an increase in not only the number of competitive teams we would have but also the quality.
Anyway, thats the implication but I am saying that's bollocks because I don't believe money is the real problem here.

Sure, it is a problem for some because Paintball society reflects real society and some people will have more money than others but it cannot explain away our malaise because other, less well off European countries are doing better than us, and considerably so.

We need to scratch a little deeper I think to get closer to the truth of the matter.
Now I am not arrogant enough to believe I will always get it right, or even my next suggestion is 100% right but I honestly think that what I am now about to suggest is closer to the real truth than money being the root cause of our Paintball problems.

I reckons we got about approximately 750 (+ or - 150) tourney ballers over here and yet we have over 300 sites.
I also believe, and this I stated some time ago, that our tourney population is made up of a majority of rec ballers who cannot find sites to play on.
In other words, other countries have hoards of rec ballers who go and play walk ons etc and have a great time but they ain't really into competitive Paintball, but over here there are no real opportunities (generally) for those type players to do that and so, they come and play tourney ball, think abuot this, if they don't wanna continue playing rental and wanna step up a level, the normal step up point is recball or walk on and if there isn't this option available then all that is left for them is tourney ball.

This is an extremely important point here because it implies that our population of tourney ballers doesn't parallel with other Euro countries.
And once we acknowledge this, then we begin to unlock the main reasons why we suck and trust me, we suck.
Our tourney population is made up of a few teams who have drive commitment etc and a lot of teams who really don't give a fuk, they just wanna play, and good luck to them, I respect that in them.
They can't go and do their thang because we just don't provide the facilities for them in the form of walk on sites.

And so we are looking toward a lot of these guys (because they are part of our tourney scene) to step up to the plate and get serious; bottom line is, they don't wanna get serious for god's sake, they just wanna have fun playing ball.
Why on earth would these guys even wanna train every week, why would they wanna turn up at Campaign, in essence they ain't serious enough about paintball, they just wanna have fun, that's all.

The answer to this, if in fact we are looking for any answers is to try and educate our site owners (ha 'frikkin' ha) into a more sophisticated approach of doing business and then to be patient because this ain't no short term resolution here.

And before these site owners start jumping up and down declaring 'Robbo's a nut and don't know what he's talking about' I will remind people of what some of the industry big hitters have remarked about UK scene.
And these guys are Dave YB ((Dye), Billy Ceranksi (PMI) and Avery (National Paintball), all of whom have stated in one way or another that our average site owners need to expand their facilities (walk ons etc), become more sophisticated in their business philosophy in developing rentals into walk ons and to become a lot more responsible when dealing with both customer base and supplier with terms like loyalty being consistently thrown into the mix.
Basically the point being made here is that a lot of site owners would change supplier at the drop of a hat for a tenth of a penny a ball, and yes, a lot of our site owners are that greedy and short sighted.

I have had many a conversation with all these 3 guys and to be honest, I felt quite embarrassed to be part of the UK scene when some of these comments were made regarding the way our site guys do business.

We can never make a 'silk purse out of a sow's ear' or so the saying goes and to look toward our tourney base to produce a competitive representation of teams is much like trying to polish a turd, it ain't gonna happen guys, it just ain't gonna happen.

We need a grass roots change at site ownership level to make a difference .... or a more sophisticated approach to marketing our sport (tourney ball not rental) directly to the public (instead of hoping or trying to generate a trickle though from rentals).
The Germans actually gave us all a great blueprint from which to work in that the average German doesn't come into contact with rental Paintball (it's banned in Germany), the average German's first contact with Paintball is tourney ball and thus their Paintball demographic is exactly the right demographic needed to generate teams, and consequently they have a huge team base over there.
The answer isn't money guys, lack of money prevents some people for sure, the answer is, we haven't got the right demographic of players populating our tourney scene, that's all... I say again, we can't make silk purse out of a sow's ear...pure and simple.

 

[rpcruzr]

The answer isn't money guys, lack of money prevents some people for sure, the answer is, we haven't got the right demographic of players populating our tourney scene, that's all... I say again, we can't make silk purse out of a sow's ear...pure and simple.

Although I agree that something should be done at field level, I don't agree that rec players are not a good base for tourney teams.

In Portugal only about 5% or less players come directly into tournament (we call it competition). The rest starts by playing rec and then develops a taste for a more competitive approach, making the move into competition. Somo of them still play both on a regular basis.

We tried something here that has been working well, which is: teams associate themselves in groups. These groups have a mission statement that says basically: "to promote the sport and help it grow".

These associations then start exploring fields for the competition player to have proper playing and trainning conditions. The emphasys being on growing the sport, not their collective wallets.

Do you see something like this working in England?

Regards,

Rui Cruz

PS: Lack of money to play.... pfffffft... give me a break!!

 

[Mark Toye-Nexus]

Yes of course.

People seem to think that paintball teams can afford to do *everything*....., always have the latest kit......

That is a modern disease my friend.

Way back when, along time ago, paintballers owned a gun and shot it for 3 or 4 years!! Shock horror!!

Today it seems that the latest 06 this and DM that HAS to be bought cos you will definately be crap otherwise.

The thing is, the fashion victims spend 4 or 5 hundred every year just keeping up with the times then bemoan thatthey are skint and cant afford to play!!

Try this, buy a second hand gun thats 2+ years old. It'll shoot fools like any other and go play instead.

 

[Syd (NSPL)]

Do you not agree that the number of events in the run up to Campaign is causing some strain on players pockets and in turn having a knock on effect at the booking office.
All UK event organisers was asked last year when we was told of the M5s if the could not run any events for three or four weeks before campaign to allow players to finance their attendance.
It didn't happen.........


Russ

The NSPL has nothing in August at all - because I did agree to not run the league events in the run up to Campaign and I stuck with it. So that's not entirely true. But there are just too many tournaments. All us organisers agreed that when we sat around that same table and no one was willing to do anything about it. Now, we're seeing the consequences.

 

[Ben Frain]

Its about time that people realise that tourney paintball is on the wane.

It is expensive especially the MS. For many teams shelling out £100's for 10 games most of which only last a few mins is well I'm sorry to say just laughable.

Reduce the cost, increase the number of games and then things may improve but it will take time.

Spot on Korky. Talk about 'competition' (e.g. the best teams are there) all you want but the Millennium is simply piss poor value for money.

Perhaps, more importantly, its important to realise that tournament paintball (esp. in the UK) is more about talking that playing. I mean, 3 friggin days of your life for about 1 hour (if you are lucky!) actual playing. This is a sport?

 

[Mark Toye-Nexus]

Spot on Korky. Talk about 'competition' (e.g. the best teams are there) all you want but the Millennium is simply piss poor value for money.

Perhaps, more importantly, its important to realise that tournament paintball (esp. in the UK) is more about talking that playing. I mean, 3 friggin days of your life for about 1 hour (if you are lucky!) actual playing. This is a sport?

I sympathise to a point BUT

Most domestic one day events are simply tiresome.

Get up at 4.30 in the morning, drive to the event for 7. Walk the fields, play 8 games over 8 hours if you are lucky and have the privelege of mixing it with who?

Go to a 'major' and you get the camaraderie, the atmosphere, the buzz of games that count, mixing it with the best that Europe/the world has to offer. Great trade stands, seeing fantastic Pro games, some great Div 1 games. Nights out with mates, new friends in new places.

Domestic tourneys cost a ton if you are lucky enough to be able to drive there that morning, obviously alot more if hotels, meals are included in the equation.

A Millennium can cost as little as £350 for a home one (including accom). I'd say that was reasonable value when you add it all up, include the experience and the memories.

Nah, feck it, lets go to a wind swept hill in Rankceister and shoot a few boxes of blobs at each other, high five your buddies at another great game of trade ball ('Thats the way to play paintball guys, we rock') and go home with the bragging rights of Stongle after another night on the pull.

 

[Ben Frain]

I sympathise to a point BUT

Most domestic one day events are simply tiresome.

Get up at 4.30 in the morning, drive to the event for 7. Walk the fields, play 8 games over 8 hours if you are lucky and have the privelege of mixing it with who?

Go to a 'major' and you get the camaraderie, the atmosphere, the buzz of games that count, mixing it with the best that Europe/the world has to offer. Great trade stands, seeing fantastic Pro games, some great Div 1 games. Nights out with mates, new friends in new places.

Domestic tourneys cost a ton if you are lucky enough to be able to drive there that morning, obviously alot more if hotels, meals are included in the equation.

A Millennium can cost as little as £350 for a home one (including accom). I'd say that was reasonable value when you add it all up, include the experience and the memories.

Nah, feck it, lets go to a wind swept hill in Rankceister and shoot a few boxes of blobs at each other, high five your buddies at another great game of trade ball ('Thats the way to play paintball guys, we rock') and go home with the bragging rights of Stongle after another night on the pull.

I agree, I am talking more generally that the time invested in tournament paintball (domestic or international) to time actual playing ratio is an absolute joke.

The fact that you quite rightly identify a few nights on the town with mates at a millennium as reason to go only highlights the point.

 

[Mark Toye-Nexus]

I agree, I am talking more generally that the time invested in tournament paintball (domestic or international) to time actual playing ratio is an absolute joke.

The fact that you quite rightly identify a few nights on the town with mates at a millennium as reason to go only highlights the point.

You misunderstand

The nights out augment the whole experience, simply making it BETTER value over and above the norm.

 

[Tom Tom]

First money is an issue. Its why I left ( I know its a great shame to the p8ntball world )
In my time playing I only had one marker (4/5 years) and the same kit. So it was down to day to day money. I just could not afford to train as much, often as I wanted. To regularly develop my mon field skill. I did practice at home, in the end my left hand was as good as my right hand for snap shooting. I had help from some great players and I thank everyone for that but in the end it was money.

Second people think they want to be pro but when it comes to the big events they dont see it as value for money as they shoot more paint get less games and have longer gaps than they did training with their mates/team the week before.
I think Robbo's apathy point (I think there was one) comes in. If you can afford to play you want to get as much "gun time" as possibel which probably comes from playing 50 games a day on the local field. If you get rolled in 30 secs in training, you just go again. In the CC you then wait, pi$$ed off for 20mins till game 2.

Third I had not realised CC was on again, but have been for the last 6 years (played 1) and watched the others. I went to the CC web site www.campaigncup.com and it is still last years details (2005) is there a new site? It does not promote it self so well.

I remember the first Crystal Palace event, unless you were going there for the event there was not a clue that it was taking place.

People might think why bother signing up to the "BIG" event if I am only going to play the people I play week in week out at 2x the cost plus accomidation, food etcetc and have no spectators as you think you would get. I can watch the pro's on dvd/internet why bother making the journey for a tourney that delivers nothing extra for ME. I remember when you used to play all divisions and I know it had to change but I had mates get off the field smiling they got done in 20 secs to the Russian Legion. They could say they had played the best, now, I played a German team, i never heard of them oHH I also played my mates I played last week at KOTH.

Maybe we need not worry about the number of people playing any more, its another paintball shift/trend but worry that Nexus, Shock Tigers are getting a bigger pool of players from local teams and getting the results that promote the UK name.

I dont really know, I mean I was never a big name, just a big player (I mean I liked my food )

 

[pestilence]

WEll, i cant pass this one by.

I agree with Robbo - UK site owners are a joke. I'd warrant less than half are probably even aware of a PB tourney scene - you know thetype that still run thier "sites" out of a back of a van....

I agree that there are too economic factors - Robbo, we may be the 4th largest economy per head, but the state of the economy is on the downturn....

I think there maybe two other reasons:

I would speculate that the average age of Ballers in the UK is on the increase. - Theres alot of 20something players out ther - just at that point when career/ family/ mortgage start to kick in.... and it becomes the "Hobby" again....

As well as that, I would also suggest that the drop out rate of players has increased. - just look at all the "Selling up" threads over the last year. - There does seem to be a large decline in New blood too - Fewer conversion of the Rec to tourney player to make up this shortfall.

Ipso facto - The player base is shrinking - teams are loosing players assets, cant make up the shortfall and collapse. Combine all four together and is not a bright and rosey future for ballin in the UK......

Robbo is right - You have to grab 'em at the rec sites, but apart form a few innovators out there, the sites just aint interested..... how the hell doyou fix that?