trigger bounce Mille = NPPL?

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by manike
What a stupid thing to say

If they scrapped the rule about people not being allowed to wipe, then we wouldn't have to worry about cheats either would we?

Without this type of rule people will use guns which are pretty much full auto. Do you think that's a good thing?

The difference, Simon, is one rule is clearly enforceable and one rule is not.
Any rule, especially one that is being made a big deal over, must be enforced with as much uniformity as possible otherwise the result is to undermine the credibility of all enforcement and confuse, frustrate and anger the players.
Unfortunately, nobody in paintball has much of a record when it comes to enforcing rules so current credibilty is thin to begin with and if markers can't be consistently regulated or manufacturers held to industry standards then it's just an ugly, unmanageable can of worms.

 

[paintballer ron]

Technicalities

The whole rule is just stupid. They are making no sense what-so-ever.


One pull=one shot. This is the rule. Trigger bounce is far within that rule. Trigger bounce occurs when you pull the trigger, and the recoil of the gun moves the trigger against your finger and the gun is fired. So, technically, you are pulling the trigger for every shot.

My point being this: they should stop worrying about something within the rules and start working harder to stop playing on, wiping, etc.

 

[JTHM]

Technicalities

Originally posted by paintballer ron

My point being this: they should stop worrying about something within the rules and start working harder to stop playing on, wiping, etc.

Sing it my man! Could not possibly say it any louder.

Personally I could care less if the guys opposing me are bouncing their triggers at me, ( hell, at 13+ bps I can't tell the difference).

But having played the National circuit for 2yrs, the blatant run throughs doing)(doing ie: run out get hit within the first five feet but continue to run and bunker 2 guys without penalty) tape lines and such, are much more of a concern for me and my team.

Time for this BS to quit......if not I'll pull a Fuel/ NE Illusion with tank in hand and end it right sweet.

Cheers.

 

[alt01]

Why is it that guns labeled auto are illegal but guns which do the exact same thing when the trigger is held a certain way allowed?

Is the point at which you hold the trigger a defining difference in the label "full auto"?

 

[paintballer ron]

alt

Alt, you are not getting the point. Fulle auto is holding the trigger down and the gun fires continually. Trigger bounce is not full auto. Whats the difference in you moving your finger against the trigger to fire and moving the trigger against your finger to fire? After playing at the Mardi Gras Open, I know for a fact that cheaters are a way bigger problem. I saw numerous wipers and I couldn't count how many people played on.

 

[manike]

Baca, if they made a decent rule it would be just as easily (if not more easily enforced) as wiping. They just need to work out what to do and how to do it. A set test. That could then be performed at any time on or off field. Much easier to check than for wipers.

KO if you think most people can shoot 16bps then excuse me for ten minutes while I laugh so hard my sides split..................

Ah ok back again.

If you ever do a decent survey of people you will find most have trouble getting over 6-8bps (if they pull the trigger without fanning). Those that are fast at walking triggers start getting maybe 10-12bps. I don't give a **** what your little LCD panel says, measure it properly. Those that are now very fast and have developed techniques can go quicker, but they are few and far between at the moment.

If they aren't shooting a force feed loader (Halo B or warp etc.), then they will never be getting over 13bps approx for more than a couple of shots.

Lasoya gets around 14 (or did with his Angel a few years back when he was tested). Jack Woods with his new E-blade set to shoot hella fast gets around 14 (analysed the video's he put out). Both look and sound a lot quicker to the untrained ear/eye. Those are two of the fastest trigger fingers using 'normal' techniques that I have ever seen.

Joe Punter tourney baller gets around 6-8. Seriously.

Oh and whether or not most people can hold those rates for over 10 shots is debateable also.

They certainly can't do it when running into their front bunkers.

If you allow bounce and guns to pretty much become FA then every single player on the field will be able to spit paint at 17bps (need to see that fast to really appreciate it) even when they are running or looking the other way or picking their nose.

If you don't think that will change the game from where it is now, then you haven't seen what 17bps is and how it can be used.

Paintballer Ron, Bounce is NOT within the one pull = one shot rule. If your finger is not pulling and releasing the trigger (the gun is doing it for you) then it is NOT one pull.

If you are keeping your finger in the same position and the gun keeps firing IT IS FULL AUTO.

The difference you site Ron is exactly the difference which makes one semi and one FA. Wether it is your finger that is moving or the gun in order to get the shots. It's all about the finger

Do we want it such that people with no trigger skill or practice in how to shoot fast and how to keep aim when shooting fast can suddenly level the playing field with a bouncing gun against those that have developed such skills?

Yeah why not. And while we are at it, let's all start in our bunkers on the 50 since not everyone is as fast at running and we wouldn't have to make people work on their skills if they could just start in their bunkers.

 

[duffistuta]

Amen

Simon, you win post of the month, possibly the year.

 

[manike]

Thanks Steve...

Just so people can read the actual rule we are talking about here it is...

5.21. The definition of a trigger is the movable lever or button that comes in contact with the finger. The contacts of a switch will not be considered to be a trigger. A trigger pull requires an exertion of force by the finger on the trigger and a release of force by the finger on the trigger during every firing cycle. Markers may fire at any rate of fire, and may shoot any number of paintballs, provided that it fires in semi auto or pump mode only, which means that no more than one paintball is discharged during each firing cycle.

And before Baca tries it I don't think Newton's third law is an arguement they would be willing to entertain although as an engineer I could argue it from that side... When the definition of semi or FA comes in that cancels out the 3rd law arguement as it defines which body is moving to start the cycle.

 

[Recoil]

I am assuming by Newtons Third law (having not studied it) that you mean that a finger exerting force does not necessarily have to be the object that is in motion?

 

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by manike
Baca, if they made a decent rule it would be just as easily (if not more easily enforced) as wiping. They just need to work out what to do and how to do it. A set test. That could then be performed at any time on or off field. Much easier to check than for wipers.

Si, I'm on your side in this debate, really I am, but so far I'm having trouble identifying any sanctioning or organizing body that has produced a decent rule or even more than a handful of consistently enforced rules.

Here's a story for ya. At HB in one game, and one only, one of the Swedes checked my marker for bounce or any illegal firing capability. I was the only one on my team checked all tourney, btw. The marker was an Excalibur. Now this fellow was very diligent. He shot about half my hopper trying to get the marker to do something unacceptable and couldn't. He never once however tried a little manuever that will make an Excal go full auto if, IF, the trigger has been set up to do it. This particular marker wouldn't have gone FA but my point is the ref didn't know how to check this particular marker and that Excal tweak isn't the only one out there.
All well and good to say let's devise an easy, uniform test but I think it's gonna be something else again to accomplish.

PS--as for the pre-emptive invocation of Newton's Third I would never stoop to using science in an argument.
You're confusing me with Hotpoint. Tho how that's possible I can't imagine.