This Millennium 15BPS rule...

[Wadidiz]

Also, no matter whether we allow enhanced modes or full auto, excessive bounce is a safety issue. Guns still need to be tested for excessive bounce and I've included that in my proposal. Does the robot catch excessive bounce? If so it could have some usefulness but there would still be the incredible logistics problem Baca points out. Plus the expense of the piece of equipment.

The only thing practical would be a simplified bounce-test by properly trained refs.

 

[Furby]

Originally posted by Baca Loco
Not gonna burn you, Furbs, but I think in two places youse a wee bit naive.
Robbie the Robot is legitimately only capable of catching the stupid or lazy cheater. Robbie is like the wizard in OZ--as long as you believe he's all-powerful you'll behave but once you know the truth the charade is over.
Beyond that how many guns in how many games can the refs really pull and send to visit Robbie without compromising the schedule? In the NPPL particularly time is at a premium with 11+ hour days the baseline. There is no practical way with one robot and 1000+ players more than random "educated" checks are going to happen.

And you genuinely believe what's being proposed elsewhere is better? And you call me naive?

Second, as long as speed is what sells the manufacturers are gonna offer speed. Doesn't matter if it's legal or not. They aren't in business to accomodate today's rules as has already been demonstrated by the effectiveness of the old self-regulated and industry agreed upon bps standard of 13 that lasted, what, a week or two?

You're right in a limited sense, which is why I said the manufacturers only had a piece of the blame. Ultimately it's up to the players to make their equipment compliant with whatever rules are in effect, and when they're not, the majority of the blame should rightly rest on their shoulders.

 

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by Furby
And you genuinely believe what's being proposed elsewhere is better? And you call me naive?

Conceptually, yes. As offered at present, I have my doubts.
As things stand the robot is at best a half measure and one that logistically cannot be brought to bear in every instance.
A hard cap can be enforced and deliver a fundamentally level playing field. Methodologically the two are worlds apart. My concerns relate to the seemingly extraneous stuff currently in the PSP rules and the method of measurement.

 

[Crpstack]

Okie


Baca, Steve sorry about not answering but I had to work at my workplace. (odd concept..)

As it would be useless to react on the old questions and debates lets stick to the latest posts.

Logically thinking the 15bps is safe for goggles argument can be easily defeated... Imagine a front guy on a mugging run getting caught by 2 backmen @ 15bps. Boom instant 15bps+ on him and if he is unlucky he will be hit on the goggs severely jeopardizing his sight in the process if we believe the manufacturers.
Besides that there is a test entity called ASTM wich supposedly regulates any visor/goggle/glasses that enters the market Im curious what they have to say in this matter.

On the measurement of 15 bps

So how exactly the measurement will take place? If you do 65ms firing window of opportunity then the actual rof will be much less as noone has a built in metronome in their fingers. People will bitch about being back to tippy ages.

If you measure average then the chrony ref has to stand there and point that thing on the player for cca 5-10 secs to get any info wich can be remotely called average and correct. That is not efficient at all as there is 14 guys on the field to be checked.
Besides depending on each manufactures implementation the "limiting" can be quite problematic as if the gunmaker slips up
the player gonna get the shaft.

Plus on the top of that I definitely feel as a logistics nightmare as at MM ALL the players (1000+)will flock their gun vendor for new soft/board/chip and there will be surely ppl left out in the cold. What will the Mill say to those? Do the vendors have even a slightest clue what they gonna be subjected to? Just imagine the plus costs of staff/material etc...

Im not a tool of "The Evil PB Companies" I just have concerns about this and the effect it gonne have on us players.

The only viable choice in my opinion would be the following.

RFID chips in gun boards and RFID gates at the entrance of the fields. The method would be that the computer connected to the gates asks for the checksum (digital fingerprint) of the ORIGINAL UNMODIFIED program of the given gunboard and lets the legal ones in and alerts (I already can see the big red lights) for the failing ones. Plus the refs on the field could use RFID scanners to check the guns for trickery.

Just to be constructive too....


Peace

 

[A.B]

i'm still wondering how people think that a 15bps cap will enable a marshal to determine whether a gun has a cheat board in it or not, if the cheat board caps at 15 bps then it won't appear illegal- if this rule is to level the playing field then it still doesn't unless it allows every player to use a cheat board or no one to use one- well the last option aint gonna happen is it so i guess the only workable solution is to allow cheat boards up to 15 bps.

I am aware that this will cause legality issues- but shouldn't we now be evolving with the technology?

Just as an add on- Airsoft in the uk i believe is allowed as full auto- could we not attempt to shift the legislation on paintguns towards this?- thereby allowing ramp/full auto legallly

A.B

 

[Crock_O'Sheet]

Crpstack

This was preposed a while ago and Manike happilly proved that the checksum is not an infallable test of software intergrity. It is too easy to pad software out to produce the required checksum. I am sure there is a cost-effective way that a form of software check or hardware lock could be made to ensure that all guns have the same software. I hope that the 15bps cap is only a stop gap solution used until we can stop companies like PBAdvantage producing products that jepodize our sport.

AB

The problem is not just limited to the UK but France, Germany, Spain and the Netherlands as well.

 

[Crpstack]

Welp

Then I propose that we keep things as Dwell/Timer/whatever as a separate setting and upload firing control software from a central machine as the player gets one the field via radio. Its futuristic but prolly doable


Peace

 

[Chicago]

It's not THAT easy to pad a checksum, assuming you're using a suitably strong algorithm.

But, why bother with a checksum when you can just dump the entirity of the code?

 

[Chicago]

The rate is enforced via a ballistics device that measures the time between shots.

As for robot vs. new rule, it depends if you think it's better if everyone "cheating" the same, or if you want to make sure your honest players are honest while your cheaters light them up. The robot is only effective if the gun makes it to the robot in a cheater mode. That's great for catching dumb people who have their debounce too low, but isn't goig to do you any good with the new boards with 6-digit codes to get into the cheat mode and short-touch means of dropping out of it. Dynasty already has an easy solution: Turn off your marker.

And while right now, the robot may be good enough to catch 95% of people who hav eillegal markers (most of them just due to their own ignorance about debounce), it's only a matter of time before the serious cheaters pick up a cheat-mode-hidden board that the robot can't catch.

Not that I like the ramping either, but I understand why they're doing it. Hopefully it's just a temporary measure until a better technical solution.

 

[Furby]

Originally posted by Chicago
It's not THAT easy to pad a checksum, assuming you're using a suitably strong algorithm.

But, why bother with a checksum when you can just dump the entirity of the code?

Just out of curiousity, how many lines of code does a typical paintball marker need to operate correctly? I wouldn't think it'd be a terribly large file...