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Smart Parts Patents

Bighead_Edd

HOLD FAST!
Well, i'm totally against this due to one reason. Choice. I for one don't want to be just like everyone else and use the same marker as the person next to me, what would happen to the different views on markers? cockcers, angels, matrix etc, all of those would disapear and you would use the same thing as everyone else! Just my 2p worth.
 

Munkeh

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Jul 12, 2002
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Ok, is it just me or have most people just jumped on the "Smart Parts are a bunch of w*nkers" bandwagon. Should we not just wait and see what SP actually intend to do with their "acquired" patents. I heard that several different companies have patents surrounding PB markers and yet don't enforce them so why would SP do any differently? Because a figure of 1 million dollars has been banded around with no substantial backing! Ok so im defending smart parts and yes im going to as, from what I have read, SP at this moment are only pursuing legal action against ICD regarding a marker that is not even in production yet as they have "borrowed" some of SP's designs for it! I just hope everyone will wait...
 

dnafwtbtitft

The bell tolls...
Jul 23, 2003
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Originally posted by Ant Jones
Fact is, there were vague hints about patents at the time of going to press (several weeks ago) but nothing concrete enough to comment on, and people aren't too forthcoming with info when patents and such are involved until they have taken advice from their lawyers. Which is what the Gardners are doing right now, as a lot of what has been thrown around on here and elsewhere is apparently completely untrue. I tried to find out from them last night as to what is really going on with patents, but all they would say was that it's nothing like people are making out and they will send me all the info as soon as they have details in writing from their lawyers. That's why we've said nothing until now. There was nothing we could say that wasn't simply more conjecture.

And as leaving stuff out so as not to offend advertisers...more to the point would be that we prefer not to print false information due to not knowing all the facts. That would have made us look pretty stupid.

We've been promised that we will be the first to know what the patents really mean, which means you lot will be too. It should all come to light some time in the coming week.

Ant
I honestly believe that PGI will be the best people to look into this and get information from all sides and sources.

They are and have been impartial, and they have also been outspoken on difficult issues. I commend that and look forward to seeing what they find out and how they look into this. It's one of the reasons I am posting this stuff on this board.

I can't wait to find out how what SP says stacks up against the what the other major electronic gun manufacturers say...

I'm hoping PGI as well as talking to SP talk to ICD, AKA, WDP, AGD, WGP, BL, NPS and get the view from everyone (leave Mike out of it as he just wants to build mechanical pumps ;) ). It will be very interesting then to see how many 'rumours' can be confirmed or denied. It will also be interesting to see how the things SP have 'stated' tie in with the other companies contact/dealings with SP.

I am concerned that many when speaking to a publication may have no choice but to clam up on some of the issues (or will have been told to by their lawyers), but we shall see shan't we?

As for me 'sexing' things up? I've actually had to be careful about what I am saying, and I've tried to stick to things I know to be true when I make statements and point out where things are just rumours or I don't know if they are true, by saying how I came by the information.

I know a lot of this is hard to believe, I find it hard to believe myself, but I have very valid and trustworthy sources. Yes it has only recently just blown up, but I've been following it on and off for years.
 

dnafwtbtitft

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Jul 23, 2003
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Originally posted by Munkeh
Ok, is it just me or have most people just jumped on the "Smart Parts are a bunch of w*nkers" bandwagon. Should we not just wait and see what SP actually intend to do with their "acquired" patents. I heard that several different companies have patents surrounding PB markers and yet don't enforce them so why would SP do any differently? Because a figure of 1 million dollars has been banded around with no substantial backing! Ok so im defending smart parts and yes im going to as, from what I have read, SP at this moment are only pursuing legal action against ICD regarding a marker that is not even in production yet as they have "borrowed" some of SP's designs for it! I just hope everyone will wait...
hmm.

We are already seeing what SP are doing with patents. We saw what they intended to do with them 2 years when they sent out notices of possible infringement to ALL electro gun manufacturers (BTW that also covers them to claim for back royalties to when they actually notified these other companies... cunning!)

Yes several companies have gun patents. Some have realised their patents aren't worth squat and aren't enforceable. And some just patent things to protect themselves but not to go after others (Tom Kaye springs to mind).

SP are at the moment only sueing ICD (and lining up for WDP) but they did, 2 years, ago put everyone that makes electro guns on notice of possible infringement.

As for SP suing ICD for a possible gun in prototyping? Pleeeaasseee... come on. Then why did they put them on notice two years ago with everyone else? And how do you think SP found out about what would have been a secret project inside ICD?

Oh and also... you can't sue someone for intent to infringe as far as I am aware :D That's like finding someone guilt of a crime before they did it.... minority report anyone?

I don't believe that SP comment.

It's quite easy to find out if it is true though...

PGI, when you ask SP what they are sueing ICD for, please ask them which claims and from which patents they believe ICD are infringing... that will tell us exactly SP's claims to IP infringement in regards to the ICD products...

Can't wait.
 

dnafwtbtitft

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Jul 23, 2003
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Ask and ye shall receive...

From the court records...

___________________________________________________
1/9/03 147 MEMORANDUM ORDER granting in part, denying in part defts'
[117-1] second motion for Summary Judgment. The motion is
granted as to non-infringement of Claim 3 of the '707
patent and denied as to non-infringement of Claim 1 of the
'843 patent ; Defts' [132-1] motion for Claims Construction
is granted and that the matter is hereby referred to Mag.
Judge Sensenich for a Markman hearing to determine whether
the language of Claim 1 of the '843 patent supports the
construction of a single, four-way solenoid valve as an
embodiment of the element requiring first and second
electrically operated pneumatic flow distribution
mechanisms ; The Markman hearing is to determine
construction of Claim 15 of the '133 patent, as per Judge
Cindrich's Order entered 10/2/01 directing remand for
construction of the term "electrically controlling the
filing of" in Claim 15 of the '133 patent ; the [144-1]
amended report and recommendation is adopted as the opinion
of the court. ( signed by Judge Terrence F. McVerry on
1/9/03 ) CM all parties of record. (tt)
[Entry date 01/10/03]
__________________________________________________

I don't see anything relating to a gun in development from those patents that wouldn't relate to the current ICD products...
 

dnafwtbtitft

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Jul 23, 2003
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Oh how it all comes together, do you believe me that they are going after WDP yet?

Originally posted by paintbalr1331
Well here are all of the cases listed for "Smart Parts" in the Federal courts. The most recent was filed in 11/2002 against WDP but I was not able to pull up the plaintiff's petition to see what it was about.

3:2002cv01557 (Oregon) 11/15/2002
SMART PARTS INC vs. WDP LTD

2:1997cv01425 (Pennsylvania) 08/05/1997
SMART PARTS, INC vs. WDP, LTD.

2:1995cv00839 (Pennsylvania) 05/31/1995
SMART PARTS, INC. vs. BARRELS OF AMERICA

6:2000mc00102 (Florida) 10/12/2000
SMART PARTS, INC. vs. INDIAN CREEK DESIGN

2:2000cv01482 (Pennsylvania) 08/01/2000
SMART PARTS, INC. vs. INDIAN CREEK DESIGN

3:2002cv00843 (Oregon) 06/21/2002
SMART PARTS, INC. vs. USA AIR CONCEPTS, INC.

3:2002cv01498 (Oregon) 11/05/2002
SMART PARTS, INC. vs. INDIAN CREEK DESIGNS, INC.
 

bcballer

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Feb 2, 2003
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Check this out...

Some people have been saying that Smart Parts wants to have a monopoly on electronic guns..blah blah.. want to be the Microsoft of paintball etc etc.

Check out this story (with an exerpt first)

"Microsoft suffered utter defeat at a crucial pretrial hearing in what appears to be the highest-stakes patent litigation ever—one in which a tiny company called InterTrust Technologies claims that 85% of Microsoft's entire product line infringes its digital security patents. "

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/technology/articles/0,15114,466180,00.html

These things happen all the time in big business, but whether paintball is ready for the can of worms that Smart Parts is opening up remains to be seen.
 

Rich S

Platinum Member
Jan 17, 2002
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business is business is business

people go on saying that paintball is not recognised enough, it is too expensive, etc etc blah blah.

10 years ago...

computers cost £2000 for a super fast (50mhz) PC.

today...

computers cost £800 for a super fast (3gig Mhz) pc

why...

comapnies patented stuff, people had to buy licences, companies were amalgamated, sold, purchased, new companies formed and some folded.

when DOS was patented did it cause trouble for unix who had its own form of DOS? no, they adapted, paid or did what was needed to survive.

now to paintball...

SP own a patent, they will licence it to others as it will make them money. if they don't then the other companies will sell non electros or come up with a new system and sell it cheaper to undermine SP therefore they wil lose money. - not good business.

business wise the patent is a good idea for SP, licencing it will also be a good idea. therefore it makes sense.

also comparing it to the computer industry it will be better for us in the future as as companies need to make more money they may drive down the cost of balling.

Conclusion...

it is just business, w can arge, bit(h, boycot whatever, it wont make a difference as people will still use SP.

PS

i don't support or condone what they are doing - currently i am pissed off with SPE as an S-frame i ordered in Feb still has not arrived - but that is to do with SPE and HSW.
 

JoseDominguez

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Oct 25, 2002
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Using the computer anology........... Microsoft managed to totally monopolise the industry, destroy all competition and hampered the development of any real viable alternatives, without it maybe PCs would be more expensive now..... or maybe we'd all be using a machine that was the natural development of the industry..the top of the evolutionary ladder. It could of been something like the mac, maybe something else.........we will never know as all we got was the force bred machines Bill Gates wanted us to have.
Mebbe paintball will head the same way? everyone having to use the same franchised set of kit because developing anything different is a legal battlefield?