Rule changes at World Cup

[Baca Loco]

The rules "clarification"--

isn't a restriction but a loophole so in actual practice they can claim something like semi-only but in practice not really sweat it.
After all, how many of the judges are gonna be able to tell the difference between some form of enhanced fire and the ROF capability of some board-modified markers, for instance, and how much time are they gonna have to try to figure stuff like that out? Time-wise they're gonna need to keep things moving swiftly and not get bogged down in details and they don't want to alienate hordes of players by tossing people left and right for possible violations.

 

[Wadidiz]

Originally posted by Wadidiz
Inquiring minds need to know!

Judges need to know too. The rules can't just be words that nobody follows. If they mean anything they must be enforced consistently for everyone.

And while we're at it, what about trigger-guards? Can't find anything in the rules about those anymore. They are obviously needed to make the markers safer. Maybe that needs to be spelled out just to be sure.

As you can see, one main reason for my original post on this thread was to know what I would say as a judge (fortunately for some people I won't get to make it to the Cup this year).

If you read some of my other posts, you can see that I'm somewhat legalistic. Why? Because I would rather have rules than have to think. Or remember..."let's see, I enforce this rule for this team, or this class of teams, but, oh, yeah, not for them this time."

Had a friend of mine who came back onto the tournament scene with an Angel he had just bought, without a trigger-guard. I told him that I didn't think it would be allowed, but that I would check the Millennium rules. Nothing in the rules. Had to chase down Moose. Moose said that makers without trigger-guard would definitely not be allowed. Point here: it's easier if we have clearly spelt-out rules. Poor sod probably wouldn't have had to buy a new trigger-frame if he hadn't asked me!

Then there are those mystical rules about markings and colors on hoppers. Red = to pantome 123456XYZ?

We need clarity so that the rules are known and respected. Otherwise let's just have a free-for-all.

 

[Mark]

Re: Re: Rule changes at World Cup

Originally posted by Wadidiz


This is slightly off-topic but the definition of semi is clear to me, but didn't seem clear to Bill Cookston several years ago.

I developed a rocker-type trigger that I put on an LCD Angel that has a pivot point in the center rather than at the top and has two micro-switches, one under each finger. I later heard that someone thought of the same thing about 6 years ago and was told by Bill Cookston that NPPL wouldn't allow it.

The trigger design I tried is no-questions one-pull, one-shot. No trigger bounce. It is very light and I could instantly get 14 bps by light tapping with both fingers after practicing and getting used to it. I could fan it up to 18 bps very easily. No scoop since people already shoot that fast. Just easy to get to those speeds.

I would go commercial with it if I wasn't afraid of the wrong intepretation of these rules.

Yep I hear you I was standing there listening to the reply to what it entailed, and yes is was kinda fudged but hey thats the way it goes. Plain english is what is required for the rules but unless you offer to do it it isn't going to happen.

Though I can't recall the actuall paragraph sub section etc the procedure for chronoing a marker with regard to what constitutes a hot gun is really screwed up due to the one shot rule over x fps and the total shot count of 900 fps under the rules as written currently you could shoot a string of 3 shots that total 900 but have an individual shot of way over 300 but get in cos the total is 900...that is screwed! We in this country have always worked at if a marker fires a single shot of over 320 might have been 325 (tournament dependant) then regardless of the total of 3 shots being under 900 you still have a hot marker ! but hey I looked at the rules and about 4 sub sections would have to be rewritten.

All rules can be bent to suit if you read into them close enough, so PLAIN ENGLISH is the way forward. as Baca said the "loophole" get rid of loopholes !

Matski the 8.75 applies to enhanced modes only (though I do think it is a typo and was omitted to be removed at this revision of the rules) and as such would NOT apply to Angels or any other marker fireing in semi mode.

Enhanced would mean something that is software/mechanically (Turbo/Burst/Reactive Trigger) controlled beyond the action of pulling the trigger.

 

[Liz]

Originally posted by Wadidiz


As you can see, one main reason for my original post on this thread was to know what I would say as a judge (fortunately for some people I won't get to make it to the Cup this year).

If you read some of my other posts, you can see that I'm somewhat legalistic. Why? Because I would rather have rules than have to think. Or remember..."let's see, I enforce this rule for this team, or this class of teams, but, oh, yeah, not for them this time."

Had a friend of mine who came back onto the tournament scene with an Angel he had just bought, without a trigger-guard. I told him that I didn't think it would be allowed, but that I would check the Millennium rules. Nothing in the rules. Had to chase down Moose. Moose said that makers without trigger-guard would definitely not be allowed. Point here: it's easier if we have clearly spelt-out rules. Poor sod probably wouldn't have had to buy a new trigger-frame if he hadn't asked me!

Then there are those mystical rules about markings and colors on hoppers. Red = to pantome 123456XYZ?

We need clarity so that the rules are known and respected. Otherwise let's just have a free-for-all.

We came up against the same problem at Campaign. 2 of my players were told by marshalls that they couldn't wear camo trousers according to the rules, & they wouldn't be let onto that field again. Well, unlike many people there I had read the rules cover to cover a number of times including the night before it started just to make sure. I hadn't seen any reference to a "no camo" rule & I challenged this with Moose. He said it was definitely in there, so I asked them to show me the rule. Sure enough, no rule against it to be seen.
The trigger guards issue is another one. This was raised on these boards a couple of months before Campaign & we were told that they are necessary, but again a "rule" that isn't in the book. Wel, that was OK for those who come on here & happened to see the relevant thread, but not everyone has Internet access so there could be many players who think they are legit according to the rule book, who could be banned or have to make expensive mods (provided the parts are available) through no fault of their own.

This really needs to be sorted out, both rules changing at too short notice for people to do anything about it, and rules being applied that aren't in the book in the first place. We are supposed to be trying to make paintball a professional sport - with things like this happening that's not going to help our case!

 

[Matski]

The no camo rule, if it isnt there, damn well should be. Players shouldnt be allowed to play if their wearing army gear.

 

[raehl]

So sanity check...

Where on Paintball.com was this posted, and are we *SURE* that Jerry posted it?

I smell a rat. If there were really a rules change, it'd be done in a release or announced by Lane or someone on Smacktalk and Warpig, not some out-of-the-way place I'm not seeing on Paintball.com. And doesn't NPPL make rules changes, not PSP? That and the rule itself reminds me of one of Tyger's April Fools news items.

[player walks up to chrono station. Judge takes marker and fires it as fast as he can while counting one-one-thousand and another judge counts how many balls come out.]

"Nope, that 9th ball was .83 of the way out by the end of the second, this marker is not legal."


Riiight.


- Chris

 

[Liz]

The fact is, there wasn't a rule yet marshalls were trying to enforce it (like the trigger guards rule). We weren't talking all over camo anyway, just trousers. If the rule is there fine, if it isn't then how on earth are players supposed to know what is & isn't allowed? If the rules didn't state "semi-auto only", then how would players know not to use full auto or turbos? If they don't state "barrel socks only", then what about the poor guy who gets penalties for using a barrel bung 'cause he had no way of finding out?

 

[Wadidiz]

So sanity check...

Originally posted by raehl
Where on Paintball.com was this posted, and are we *SURE* that Jerry posted it?

I smell a rat. If there were really a rules change, it'd be done in a release or announced by Lane or someone on Smacktalk and Warpig, not some out-of-the-way place I'm not seeing on Paintball.com. And doesn't NPPL make rules changes, not PSP? That and the rule itself reminds me of one of Tyger's April Fools news items.

Check yourself, Bro:

http://www.paintball.com/features/story.cfm?placementID=1504

http://www.paintballworldcup.com/index.html

http://www.paintballworldcup.com/rules.html

It sure looks like one New York lawyer, who is busier than a one-armed paper-hanger, is the person who makes the rules.

And Millennium seems to blindly copy them, for better or worse.

 

[Wadidiz]

Re: Re: Rule changes at World Cup

Originally posted by Liz

We came up against the same problem at Campaign. 2 of my players were told by marshalls that they couldn't wear camo trousers according to the rules, & they wouldn't be let onto that field again. Well, unlike many people there I had read the rules cover to cover a number of times including the night before it started just to make sure. I hadn't seen any reference to a "no camo" rule & I challenged this with Moose. He said it was definitely in there, so I asked them to show me the rule. Sure enough, no rule against it to be seen.
The trigger guards issue is another one. This was raised on these boards a couple of months before Campaign & we were told that they are necessary, but again a "rule" that isn't in the book. Wel, that was OK for those who come on here & happened to see the relevant thread, but not everyone has Internet access so there could be many players who think they are legit according to the rule book, who could be banned or have to make expensive mods (provided the parts are available) through no fault of their own.

This really needs to be sorted out, both rules changing at too short notice for people to do anything about it, and rules being applied that aren't in the book in the first place. We are supposed to be trying to make paintball a professional sport - with things like this happening that's not going to help our case!

Right Liz,

The ultimate needs to be a walking encyclopedia to know and be able to talk about the rules. There are just too many unspoken rules.

Millennium, and so many other leagues, have adopted the NPPL rules because they were light-years ahead of all the others. But let's face it: they are very, very poorly written. Needs to be fixed. Who's gonna do it?

Millennium needs ME to help them go through and sort things out. (Sound like I'm lobbying for a job?) Then maybe NPPL will reverse the honors and copy us!

The no-camo thing is a European thing. Because people are judged much more here by how they're dressed. And to clearly dissassociate tournament paintball from paramilitary and the extreme right or left. Needs to be put in the rules.

Ditto trigger-guards, etc.

 

[raehl]

Well then...

That's just plain strange.

<shrug>

- Chris