no offence, but that was a kinda short-sighted answer to the short-sightedness of the other answers..
Actual phone conversation I had last week:
(answer phone)
"Hello?"
(voice of 14 year old kid)
"Would you like to sponsor a 5-man team?"
"No. We don't sponsor teams. And if we did, you're going about this entirely the wrong way. If you're serious about a sponsorship, you should put together a team resume and schedule and preferably talk to people you know, or at least send them your resume and schedule before calling."
"Why are you telling me how to get a sponsor?"
"Because you apparently could use some pointers."
"I don't need you to tell me how to get a sponsor, I already have Dye and Xbox."
"Then what the hell are you bothering me for?" (click)
The dood didn't even bother to tell me who the #$&* he was before asking for ****!
The fashion industry example is a bad one. There the industry finds you. If you were to walk into a store and ask to be sponsored, that would automatically disqualify you from being sponsored. Additionally, giving away clothing is much cheaper than supplying a team with paint and gear. Much higher margins on clothing.
(answer phone)
"Hello?"
(voice of 14 year old kid)
"Would you like to sponsor a 5-man team?"
"No. We don't sponsor teams. And if we did, you're going about this entirely the wrong way. If you're serious about a sponsorship, you should put together a team resume and schedule and preferably talk to people you know, or at least send them your resume and schedule before calling."
"Why are you telling me how to get a sponsor?"
"Because you apparently could use some pointers."
"I don't need you to tell me how to get a sponsor, I already have Dye and Xbox."
"Then what the hell are you bothering me for?" (click)
The dood didn't even bother to tell me who the #$&* he was before asking for ****!
The fashion industry example is a bad one. There the industry finds you. If you were to walk into a store and ask to be sponsored, that would automatically disqualify you from being sponsored. Additionally, giving away clothing is much cheaper than supplying a team with paint and gear. Much higher margins on clothing.
You know what? I cry foul.
What's all this crap about how the mean paintball field owners are too business oriented and focus on the customers who...... will pay the most money? What is this nonsense?
Paintball field owners should DEFINITELY cater to the customers who pay the most money, and if your average rec player is willing to shell out 50 pounds to play, and your average walk-on player wants to scoot by on 10 and BYOP, why SHOULD the field bother with the walk-on player?
What is the field EVER going to get out of it? A better tournament scene in Britain? What kinda stupid field owner wants MORE people who think they should be able to play at cost, or worse, free? Were I a field owner, I think I'd have to actively discourage such a thing.
You know, over here in the states, when you have a buncha people who REALLY want to practice a lot without paying to play at a local field, they do one of two things:
Open their own field and fund it off of them rec players, or buy an airball field and set it up on some extra land they or someone they know owns. Find a farmer who likes you and ask for 2 acres of grass you can throw a field up on and practice. Problem solved.
I suppose it is easier to complain that the field owners are at fault for not wanting to get rid of their paying customers for freeloaders though.
What's all this crap about how the mean paintball field owners are too business oriented and focus on the customers who...... will pay the most money? What is this nonsense?
Paintball field owners should DEFINITELY cater to the customers who pay the most money, and if your average rec player is willing to shell out 50 pounds to play, and your average walk-on player wants to scoot by on 10 and BYOP, why SHOULD the field bother with the walk-on player?
What is the field EVER going to get out of it? A better tournament scene in Britain? What kinda stupid field owner wants MORE people who think they should be able to play at cost, or worse, free? Were I a field owner, I think I'd have to actively discourage such a thing.
You know, over here in the states, when you have a buncha people who REALLY want to practice a lot without paying to play at a local field, they do one of two things:
Open their own field and fund it off of them rec players, or buy an airball field and set it up on some extra land they or someone they know owns. Find a farmer who likes you and ask for 2 acres of grass you can throw a field up on and practice. Problem solved.
I suppose it is easier to complain that the field owners are at fault for not wanting to get rid of their paying customers for freeloaders though.
^funny
I only say "funny" cause I avoid "lol."
I think the situation Robbo is refering to is where field owners don't do much to encourage people to buy their own equipment, in fact not allowing gun owners from playing at their sites on certain days. I know a little while ago it was common practice not to allow people who owned Tippman 98s from playing against people renting Tippman 98s. The theory being that the renters would get discouraged and never come back.
My experience is that players of all but the very top level blame the gear for most failures to win, and buy or beg for better gear frequently:
Doc Nickel shows what I mean in this comic.
It means that people either rent once or twice a year, or play tournaments. If I interpret it right, he is calling for more dedicated rec ballers. The real money, it seems to me, is in players who have a gun, play 1 every month or so, and pay full retail on paint. Those players also buy equipment, which is a possible way for the field owners to make back the money they miss on rental, come out more often than renters, and make a wider base for paintball to stand on in the UK.
You're right, it isn't in field owner's interest to have a bunch of tournament players around pleading for hook-ups, but it seems wierd not to let the new players see their fancy new toys and think "I could be a god with one of those Incockulatorgels..."
I only say "funny" cause I avoid "lol."
I think the situation Robbo is refering to is where field owners don't do much to encourage people to buy their own equipment, in fact not allowing gun owners from playing at their sites on certain days. I know a little while ago it was common practice not to allow people who owned Tippman 98s from playing against people renting Tippman 98s. The theory being that the renters would get discouraged and never come back.
My experience is that players of all but the very top level blame the gear for most failures to win, and buy or beg for better gear frequently:
Doc Nickel shows what I mean in this comic.
It means that people either rent once or twice a year, or play tournaments. If I interpret it right, he is calling for more dedicated rec ballers. The real money, it seems to me, is in players who have a gun, play 1 every month or so, and pay full retail on paint. Those players also buy equipment, which is a possible way for the field owners to make back the money they miss on rental, come out more often than renters, and make a wider base for paintball to stand on in the UK.
You're right, it isn't in field owner's interest to have a bunch of tournament players around pleading for hook-ups, but it seems wierd not to let the new players see their fancy new toys and think "I could be a god with one of those Incockulatorgels..."
Ah....
Around here, we call people who play more than twice a year and expect to pay full retail for paint "scenario players".
Around here, we call people who play more than twice a year and expect to pay full retail for paint "scenario players".
Robbo, Chicago and Gyro have all got correct and valid points, just at different points across the scale from punter to Tournament baller.
The first thing the sites have to do, and this is where they fall down in the UK, is generate more repeat custom. The short $ philosophy in the UK is so short sites do little to encourage Punters to return even 2/3 times a year, and that sucks from a business sense. There are lots of ways to generate repeat custom without losing customers to "walk-on" or Rec status and the way to do that is by the customers "value perception". A full days Paintball isn't actually an expensive day out even for customers, but if they perceive it as expensive or not delivering value they're not likely to return in a hurry. I mean look at the alternatives:
Half a days rally driving: 200 quid
6 laps in a Ferrari 200 quid
Half a day sailing on the Solent: 100 quid
2 hrs go-karting 60-100 quid
All are competing days out for sites traditional customer base.
There are other ways to generate perceived value without tackling or reducing the cost to the customer. I ain't going to say what they are (I mean there might be a new site opening soon, or not), but there are lots and the cost to the site owner is minimal. get the customer value perception up, and offer a better gaming experience, and then you will generate repeat custom. Get repeat Custom you will eventaully get Rec-ballers, get Rec-ballers you get more tournament players. If you can generate enough Rec-Ballers, a site should be able to offer both Customer and Rec-ball on the same day (assuming the site has multiple fields not all being utilised at once). Assuming all the sites Fixed costs are covered by the customers, the only additional cost you have of having Rec ballers is the variable cost of additional Marshals You won't make as much per head, but your rec-ballers only have to cover variable costs not fixed.
As always, taking the easy route out is taken. I mean, it's a piece of p*ss to open up a woodland site, and run customers through it playing war. Increasing customer value, brand loyalty and establishing repeat custom takes more work and thought.
Once you've moved from repeat customer to rec baller, and support a site with repeat custom, then ask if the site owner is willing to offer you a discount on paint. The more you play or the more people you bring in will encourage the site owner to do this (I mean Paintball sites are subject to economies of scale too). A smart site owner would tie any deal in with an increase in "customer" ballers, making the team generate him more higher revenue clients (bit similar to Gyro's earlier post).
The problem with that is, too many ballers want something for nothing, and believe the hype that they are "Sporting Superstars". You only have to read other sites and forums to see that people believe that many equate a "human-interest" piece on TV equates to sporting stardom, it don't when extreme ironing gets more air-play.
The first thing the sites have to do, and this is where they fall down in the UK, is generate more repeat custom. The short $ philosophy in the UK is so short sites do little to encourage Punters to return even 2/3 times a year, and that sucks from a business sense. There are lots of ways to generate repeat custom without losing customers to "walk-on" or Rec status and the way to do that is by the customers "value perception". A full days Paintball isn't actually an expensive day out even for customers, but if they perceive it as expensive or not delivering value they're not likely to return in a hurry. I mean look at the alternatives:
Half a days rally driving: 200 quid
6 laps in a Ferrari 200 quid
Half a day sailing on the Solent: 100 quid
2 hrs go-karting 60-100 quid
All are competing days out for sites traditional customer base.
There are other ways to generate perceived value without tackling or reducing the cost to the customer. I ain't going to say what they are (I mean there might be a new site opening soon, or not), but there are lots and the cost to the site owner is minimal. get the customer value perception up, and offer a better gaming experience, and then you will generate repeat custom. Get repeat Custom you will eventaully get Rec-ballers, get Rec-ballers you get more tournament players. If you can generate enough Rec-Ballers, a site should be able to offer both Customer and Rec-ball on the same day (assuming the site has multiple fields not all being utilised at once). Assuming all the sites Fixed costs are covered by the customers, the only additional cost you have of having Rec ballers is the variable cost of additional Marshals You won't make as much per head, but your rec-ballers only have to cover variable costs not fixed.
As always, taking the easy route out is taken. I mean, it's a piece of p*ss to open up a woodland site, and run customers through it playing war. Increasing customer value, brand loyalty and establishing repeat custom takes more work and thought.
Once you've moved from repeat customer to rec baller, and support a site with repeat custom, then ask if the site owner is willing to offer you a discount on paint. The more you play or the more people you bring in will encourage the site owner to do this (I mean Paintball sites are subject to economies of scale too). A smart site owner would tie any deal in with an increase in "customer" ballers, making the team generate him more higher revenue clients (bit similar to Gyro's earlier post).
The problem with that is, too many ballers want something for nothing, and believe the hype that they are "Sporting Superstars". You only have to read other sites and forums to see that people believe that many equate a "human-interest" piece on TV equates to sporting stardom, it don't when extreme ironing gets more air-play.
What is with this? Why can't renters play against people with their own guns? It happens all the time over here. It is one of the reasons renters buy their own guns (usually from the place the play). They hate feeling outgunned, so they do something about it.
And just because a player can shoot a newb 10 times doesn't mean he is going to. The place I practice, at the end of Sunday, if there are a bunch of rec ballers and a bunch of tournament players and everyone has like another pod or so, everyone goes out and plays in the woods next to the tournament fields. The refs will say something about "turning down the intensity" or whatever, but a tournament player who lights up a rec player is like a grown man who beats kids on the street. It works out, it is good dumb fun, and reminders you of your roots. It only happens when I am there maybe once every 4-5 months, but it works, and this is with NPPL players and first time players.
I may have been unclear- tournament players playing the woods players happens only occasionally. The woods players include rental customers and gun owners who prefer not to play tournaments, usually have entry to mid-level guns (including some electros), and who are not as interested in scores as fun. That group, the renters and the gun owners who don't play competitively, play together every weekend.
Some of these guys become tournament players. In my case, I got out of the woods and into tournaments because I wasn't feeling any real challenge playing the people I was, and I was reading in PGI about the rockstar lifestyle of the tournament player.
Some of these guys become tournament players. In my case, I got out of the woods and into tournaments because I wasn't feeling any real challenge playing the people I was, and I was reading in PGI about the rockstar lifestyle of the tournament player.
No there is no reason to segregate them at all, I've played in the States and you don't. However allowing rental Tippmans up against Angels and Timmies ain't fair and ruins the customer experience from the customers living out their Rambo Fantasies. I'm more worried about my customer over rec-ball value perception. As a business my main focus is my customer perception and would probably only allow Rec ballers on if there was enough to have their own game. To encourage them I would allow them a different pricing structure. I don't think you can mix people playing 2 different rates into the same game.