Ramping - Robbo's Article in PGI 195

[Ben Frain]

But my main problem with this whole 'ban ramping chips' argument is that a large percentage of the ramping problem before was from the stock software from the standard boards built from the manufacturers.

The obvious cheat chips are just that - obvious, no problem pulling people up on those. But to say that stops the problem is a tad bit oversimplistic, no?

Which manufacturers could honestly state that their most recent software releases have no capability of aiding the amount of shots per pull that a user gets? Anyone?

Surely this is a bigger problem? People using stock markers can sign all the disclaimers they want in complete safety as they haven't bought a chip with the express intent to ramp - they are however kidding themselves if they think their marker isn't giving them a large helping hand in the ROF they achieve.

 

[Intheno]

no Ben, its not the bigger problem. By that same argument people who travel at 100mph on the roads can blame the car manufacturers for creating cars that can exceed the speed limit.

If the gun is capable of being true semi-auto and the player uses a mode other than true semi-auto then how is the manufacturer to blame?

 

[Matski]

No manufacturer wants to be the first to bring out a gun that people can only achieve a low rate of fire with. Realistically how fast can your average human walk the trigger, consistantly? 12bps max? Releasing a marker that does nothing to aid speed is hardly a competitive move, unless all your competitors are willing to reduce the capabilities of their products too. Good luck with that one folks. How many paintballers to screw in a lightbulb?

 

[Ben Frain]

Originally posted by Intheno
no Ben, its not the bigger problem. By that same argument people who travel at 100mph on the roads can blame the car manufacturers for creating cars that can exceed the speed limit.

If the gun is capable of being true semi-auto and the player uses a mode other than true semi-auto then how is the manufacturer to blame?

Because they put the capability there when they didn't have to.

This is a bit like McDonalds arguing that people don't have to eat their burgers - surely it's the person's fault if they get fat?

Of course, but surely at some point someone (McDonalds/Marker manufacturer's) have to take some responsibility for what THEY are capable of doing, no?

But why would they? There's money to be made, right? So it's all the players fault?

Why put the capability in the markers if you don't want anyone to use them that way? Giving with one hand and hitting us with the other. If the capability wasn't there - no one could bend the rules could they?

 

[Matski]

Yes, markers have been developed this way as this is what has been demanded by consumers...the 'never happy society'... Welcome to capitalism

 

[Ben Frain]

Originally posted by matski
Yes. Welcome to capitalism

Hypocrisy more like.

 

[Intheno]

Very Naive,
yes, I think its the guys fault for eating a bunch of fast food and getting fat. Too right it is.

Matski is half right. There are manufacturers that put cheats in thier guns first (normally those very closely linked to Pro teams, often with the company owner being the team captain and so making a non-business savvy decision). These manufacturers are normally the first to implement cheats based on the teams' input. If that cheat becomes popular and other manufacturers lose business because of it/thier teams demand it, they follow suit. Soon you are left with more than half the guns with built in cheats and the rest of the industry has little choice but to follow or lose thier shirts.
Therefore is the company that moves over last as a basic capitulation to market forces more or less to blame than the first guy to do it? Less, surely, right?
If there were players that voted with thier dollars, instead of rushing out to buy the latest cheat at the very first opportunity, then the more honest manufacturers would stand more of a chance. Fact is the manufacturers surely have to make what thier customers want, before someone else does. Sure, they could refuse to, and suffer, and maybe go under, and then they and thier customers will feel pretty stupid, and forever say, "if only we had given the players what they wanted"

Ben, the car companies put the capability to drive at 130mph when they don't have to. I don't get your point. People want fast cars. People want fast food, people want fast guns. Non Ramping high-end guns would be a very difficult sell right now. If all the companies that didn't want to follow suit didn't, and suffered, you would only have the sneaks left, and no choices other than to buy from those guys, which would be an even worse situation.

McDonalds, Fast car manufacturers and ramping gun manufacturers all have in common that if no-one wanted to buy thier gear they would stop making it and either make something else or go out of business.

Capitalism (such a dirty word) is based on supplying desired product at a profit. Kids only want to buy ramping guns these days, trust me! They want to buy them because there are now events where they can be used, and they are being used by Top, professional, sponsored athletes. Thus ramping guns have been legitamised. Blame the dweebs that did that if you want to find someone other than the actual player who decides he is going to cheat (the guy I find it hard not to blame for cheating)
The whole giving and hitting hand argument is the most naive I have heard. I mean seriously. Are players these completely blameless creatures with no morals or decision making abilities of thier own? Or is it just easier to blame someone other than the perpetrator. Is it not the same as blaming the parents/society/tv/video games etc. for mindless violence or school shootings? Isn't the maniac kid with the machine gun and the long black trenchcoat the guy to blame? He's the guy that goes to prison, so I guess so...

 

[Ben Frain]

Intheno, don't get me wrong, I understand the economics of it. I just think it reeks of piss a little bit for companies to make out the box ramping markers and then piss and moan that people use ramping markers. I know everyone wants the fastest marker and that if that need isn't met by company A then comany B will supply instead.

Bottom line is I think we all have our part to play and levelling the blame squarly and solely with the players just doesn't wash.

Manufacturers could make none cheating software but they don't
Organisers could make hard fast non ramping rules and enforce heavier punishments but they don't
Players could set their markers without any 'assistance' but they don't

Whose fault is the ramping issue? How does it get solved?

The only way is standardisation (that sounds like a Bushism) of equipment to some controllable degree.

'NPPL approved marker lists for 2006 season - You can only play with the following software boards/versions'

Can't help feeling that if people really want to make this go away then someone has to make a very brave and unpopular choice for the greater good at some point.

 

[Intheno]

I agree with the last part, but it would be easier to make the 'unpopular choice for the greater good' if the opposite choices hadn't already been made by 2 of the 3 major leagues already...

Hence I feel the direction of blame lies with the legitimisation of cheating and the willingness to do it rather than having the ability to do it. We all have the ability to cheat in a paintball game in one way or another. Doing it is another thing, and being allowed to do it is yet another. Being allowed to do it and decreasing the margin for safe play while not having liability for injury is the last and most absurd thing...

 

[Matski]