>>>> The only way you can make players/teams police themselves is by making the severity of the penalty so bad that no one would ever break the rule. <<<<
Whoa! I'm liking this!!!
But wait a min'...someone a lil' while ago was talking about how 3 for 1's don't stop wiping, etc. Why is that???
Maybe it's because 1 for 1's are rare enough. Players swallow the possible penalty that in and of itself doens't do the damage that the infraction did to the other team.
If the penalty for wiping a hit was immediate orchiectomy, NO ONE WOULD WIPE...that is, unless they were already singin' soprano. Of course we're not going to do that, but the extreme example illustrates sound principle.
The problem isn't with the penalty...it's with the enforcement.
The almighty overseers have been largely afraid to swing the hammer and do what needs to be done to keep this kind of thing under control. The problem isn't with the kids...it's with the parents.
Manike...
I'm glad I was humerous...what bothers me much more than your attempts to bother me (which, thankfully, don't bother me) is that you're not taking me seriously (well, not ME...but the possibility). You seem to have already decided I don't know what I'm talking about...in a hurry to "laugh it away," so to speak. Well, my "prediction track record" is good enough for me. If you're wanting to keep things clean, your job will be much easier if you "encourage" the players to police themselves. The reason you're having a problem now is because you haven't been doing this at all. And if you keep going down the current road, you will ALWAYS be behind and will NEVER beat these people.
So, get them to police themselves.
How do you do this? First, you penalize with penalties that pack a whallop. And I mean whallop.
Second, you demonstrate that you are, actually, going to follow through with what you say you'll do if you find someone breaking the rules.
And third, you demonstrate that you do possess the means to catch them...but when and where those means present themselves is a matter of chance (meaning unpredictable).
If the penalties are severe enough (which they're currently not) and they are taken seriously (which they're currently not) the players won't risk it if they think they might could get caught (which right now they're sure they won't). Well, wait a minute...well, yeah...I'm right.
WHY are people cheating? Come on...it's basic risk vs. reward.
Skew the equation waaaaaay towards the "risk," and the possible reward is no longer worth it. This is what no one outside of a very small group of players, who shall remain nameless, has figured out.
Secondly, players need to trust that if you say you're going to do something, you'll do it (ALL of the events fall flat on their face here). If you are a parent, you set your ground rules and you follow through with them. If you tell your teenage kid he can't have any beer in your house and you keep finding beer bottles in his room, you DON'T say "oh well, I guess we'll make it OK because I can't catch you in the act." No...you take away his/her car keys.
What the series don't seem to be doing is taking advantage of the fact that they are private organizations that have the liberty to set their own ground rules and enforce them as they see fit. I think it's absolutely laughable the degree to which a group of paintballers has literally hijacked this issue, demonstrated flagrant disregard for the rules, and has gotten away with it. Are you guys seriously telling me that you cannot think of a proposal/solution that makes sense on how to put an end to this??? What if someone told you that you had a week to figure out a PRACTICAL solution to this problem, and if you could, you'd get a check for 10-million dollars tax-free??? Would it cease to be so impossible?
>>>> Please make my millennium and tell me how we can get paintballers to police themselves.<<<<
Look closer...the answer is right in front of you.
>>>> Completely irrelevant to this discussion. He clearly knew an answer that had been proven and he had seen before but that you did not. We are not in that same situation. <<<<
Ummmmm, I disagree totally. But I don't smell an attempt to entertain this possibility from your end...you're not bothering to look at what I'm saying...you're more interested in trying to disconnect it, pull it apart, and squash it. Too bad, but somewhat representative of the typical of what's typical.
>>>> sigh* So when are you going to put up or shut up? Some of us need some light humour, so please release this master plan.<<<<
Were you one of the ones laughing at me when I talked about the need for locking barrel plugs? Or when I publicly stated that the "one game" format of paintball would never pull in spectators because it was no different than a basketball game where the first team to score a basket wins? I am right. I've been right every time I've talked like this. I'm right again. I've never been a fame-seeker or someone who "needs" to be in the limelight. When industry folks have consulted me in the past, I've given my opinions and been content to play, contribute what I could, and enjoy the company of my fellow ballers while sinking back into my own life. I guarantee you this situation is fixable, that everything I've written here could be proven correct within the scope of a season, if not a couple of tournaments. Whether or not you agree with it, admit it, or whatever...THAT is what's irrelevant. Truth is truth, regardless of your opinion of it.
;-)
>>>> The medical council has already proven you wrong. It's time for you to prove yourself correct, and all the medical experts and lawyers wrong. The full reason we have 12ft/lbs as the impact safety energy limit is because of medical and scientific studies.<<<<
Oh really? "PROVEN"??? Whoa. And what studies would those be, my friend? Perhaps you're referring to the one instance "you know of," from way back when. I definitely didn't realize that there had been "studies" involving human beings and paintball impacts...largely because any reputable scientific study along those lines would be totally unethical. So on this, I KNOW you're blowing hot air. It's not a matter of having or not having the data...it's that there is no data that exists that actually investigates what we're talking about. How do I know this??? Well, I read "studies" every day. I'm fairly well educated, medically speaking.
>>>> There was an obvious and immediate safety issue with barrel plugs, because they didn't do the basic job they were supposed to at that point. It's very easy to prove there is an issue there. As to proving there is an issue due to these type of guns... you are clutching at straws and have NO proof whatsoever, and nor can you prove it. <<<<
Nor can YOU disprove it. Remember...in evaluating a theory, science attempts to DISPROVE what's theorized. But certainly you already know this, since you are very well aquainted with the concept of medical and scientific studies.
I DON'T WANT to be the one to say "I told you so." Not to you, not to anyone. I'd rather be wrong. But I'm not. I was accused of the same thing you're talking about now when I raised the issue with barrel plugs. A few very well known pro ballers and industry figures flat out ridiculed me for my concern. I didn't lose sleep over their opinions, nor will I lose sleep over yours...not like I lose sleep over anyone's lack of concern where safety is concerned.
What do you think my motivation is, here? I've always been a strong-willed person, I believe of obvious principle. I have no "need" for the opposite of what you want, just for the sake of being obvious. I have nothing to gain one way or another. My life is blessed with or without paintball...I'm not in industry, I'm not at risk for sponsorship dollars or anything of the like. I have no history of crying wolf, though I have a history of accuracy. I, personally, couldn't care less if a person is shooting thirty balls at me full auto or ten balls with twenty pulls...I don't look at THAT...but what I do look at is whether or not it's safe.
I had an experience with a Shocker Turbo a number of years ago that involved a total of three balls on a young player who I bunkered that several players witnessed. It scared the living **** out of me. Before that experience, I thought the Turbo mode was cool. After that experience, I realized that the safety equipment we use in our sport at current is simply not adequate to handle paintball players that are out of control. Safety is the only issue for me. It's the only thing that I've ever "tiraded" about. Some things never change.
So, I can absolutely tell you that I've already "proven" this to myself. I haven't set out to "convince" myself of anything. I would rather no one else have to have it "proven" to them. Instead, what I'd like to see done is for us to stick to our principles instead of caving into the pressure of "difficulty."
>>>> Again, please present your evidence. The only time I know of someone being examined after an impact showed NO issues from the paintball impact. Do you have evidence to the contrary? That coroners report is available. It COMPLETELY exonerates the paintball playing. <<<<
I'm beginning to think you're not a scientist. But it's just a hunch. Could be wrong.
>>>> You sound like you are cornered and have nothing better to say. Got any evidence of safety issues due to impacts? I do. <<<<
I've never been "cornered," certainly not here and now...and hopefully such a thing is not your motive or intention. I am a truth seeker. That means whatever is true, I accept that completely. As for your evidence of safety due to impacts, well guess what...I have a friend that survived a gunshot. I guess that means guns aren't lethal, are they? LOL. Stop grasping, relax, and discuss. I tend to try and absorb EVERYTHING I CAN as I formulate an opinion, and if I'm presented with new information later I'll absorb that and adjust accordingly. My ego's not fragile enough to cause me to discount something because it doesn't fit with an opinion I'd formed prior to receiving new information. Like I said...I'm a truth seeker.
>>>> Guess what, most issues are caused on renegade fields with cheap equipment that don't have these modes and by people NOT using the correct protective equipment and not chronographing their guns. <<<<
Do you have data to back up this statement, which you're stating as fact, or are you speculating? Sounds like fact...feels like speculation. And as for the issues you speak of, I thought you only knew of one? Or maybe you only meant one issue where people weren't using cheap equipment and yada-yada-yada...and the other issues, which we'll discard as unimportant, pertain to "outlaw" scenarios? Hmmm. Well, it's unimportant.
>>>> I've been working on projects all year to try and reduce these safety issues. What have you done? Procrastinated on the internet about something you think is an issue but have no evidence to back up? <<<<
Procrastinated? That's an interesting term to use there. And WHAT SAFETY ISSUES??? The ones you say I'm "scaremongering" about??? LOL. If you've been spending half the time on safety issues as you've been trying to spend disconnecting my opinions on just this one issue and still getting nowhere, you need to find another way to distribute your brainpower to the masses. You've made this issue far more complex than it needs to be. The answer does not lie in a super-robot that can instantly analyze a gun laid beneath it and discover the truth of its programming (although such a thing would be nice, I don't think it's possible at least in this stage of our evolution) nor does the answer lie in training refs to hold a gun at 37.3 degrees tilt while administering 0.2 lbs pressure to the tip of a double-trigger (but it sounds cool). The answer lies in good old fashioned basic parenting skills and a little bit of balls to implement them. It really IS that simple. Competitive human nature is a spoiled little child. Treat it like one and they'll behave. Let them walk all over you and they will and they'll love it.
>>>> Your efforts are on the minor concerns, not the major ones. Your heart is in the right place but your eyes are looking in the wrong direction. <<<<
We can agree to disagree.
To Baca...
If Jerry called me tomorrow (or the day after, or whatever) I'd stay on the phone with him for however long it'd take to spell it out...or Chuck, or whomever that's actually in a position of power and is interested in doing something. The ultimate question would simply be, what is the series willing to actually do? The solution(s) exist...I find it hard to believe they haven't been tossed around in certain circles. I'm just not sure that when all is said and done, principle will win out over ease. And, admittedly, I hate that.
I had actually become so tired of the message boards because for all of the energy that goes into them, it's typically a small minority of posters who spend a great deal of time and energy accomplishing...well...absolutely nothing, aside from bashing each other in groups or bitching about one thing or another in general. Not to say there aren't some great things happenin' here and that the boards aren't fun, but I'd definitely gotten burnt out. Or, perhaps, a better way to put it would be "exhausted."
Chicago and ChuckC, you are my heroes. I love you guys.
Manike...the answer is you write the rule such that it SHOULD only apply to those people who are cheating, but WILL apply to those who have the CAPACITY TO CHEAT. Think about it (I don't have any "weird" programming on any of my 'guns).
Gaff...I like the way you're thinking.
Russell...SWEET! LOL.
To everyone, Lotsa love as always...
~J~
