PSP Vs Millennium

[Recoil]

Originally posted by Liz
Not quite the same as Sunday League soccer (or any level of soccer for that matter) other stuff deleted ......

not really a fair comparison, I was talking about the inherent dangers you pointed out... not work load on the individual.

Yes your other points are fair and should be worked out in some way, although I would be a perfect tourney ref, theres no danger of me getting sponsored anytime soon

 

[Wadidiz]

Originally posted by acsik
Why dont organizers pay the refs from the team entry fees. Then there is no sponsor interference/pressure......


Just a tought

They do in NPPL and at least the independent refs do in Millennium. And the reffing quality reflects on the tournament promotor. It is also spelled out in the NPPL and Millennium about the requirements and penalties for the reffing teams. I just wonder if those rules have ever been monitored or enforced.

PS. Question for you who know the Millennium rules: an attachment called Schedule 1 spells out for NPPL that the judging teams are required to provide 10 first-line players and will be paid $1000 for that. Is there a similar provision in Millennium?

 

[acsik]

Niall I hope you tracking this

"I just wonder if those rules have ever been monitored or enforced." Im not saying this lax but its really important



Peace?

WHA XBALL IN EUROPE?

 

[garycarrot]

Lets start at the grass roots.
If the series2k and M/M events made each team put 1 or 2 guys forward at each event, and marshall the day. That would give us enough refs for the events.
If the event also put 1 or 2 ultimates on each field to assess the refs, and give advice/training.
And you had to rotate this through your team, that means, after awhile you have a full team of "qualifyed" marshalls.
These guys should be payed by the tourny organiser, as they do now.
You could also run training to get these players up to a higher level. Then you have a pool of refs, who could judge anywhere. Which would mean the larger events could call on them.
Using these refs. and paying for their services.
Most players at the grass root level would jump at the chance to be part of the bigger picture, and who knows you might find some of the guys like it!!

Just an idea...anyone got any thoughts about it.

 

[Red_Merkin]

Think about it for a second, most players would rather play than ref.
being the ref sucks, because you get shot at, you get yelled at, and it's a long day for which you need to be at %100 concentration all the time.

I don't know of any othe sport where referees are likely to get shot, or where they are required to referee for more than an hour or two. Everyone who refs, knows that it's much harder work than actually playing the event.

If you want quality referees, you need more refs, working for shorter periods of time.
Also, as funding is an issue with each team, Refs should be paid for their services. Teams should be able to view refereeing as a source of income afor their team.

 

[Buddha 3]

I agree. I think a lot more teams would be willing to ref if it meant their entree fee for the next event will be paid for....

 

[Magued]

Paying reffs..

Sure no problemo!

How much do you think its enough? 100-200 Usd per day? Hell I could go for 500 usd / day. Its all comming out from your entre fee anyway.

Let me see if we should pay the reffs lets say 100 Usd and we have like 40 reffs/ Day that is 4000 usd
3 days that would be 12 000 usd

At Joy Masters we had 65 teams. Divide 12 000 usd in 65 = 184 usd / team in reffing salary costs
That would make a event like Joy cost each player 23 usd more. Not so expensive, but the question is does it make the reffs better?

Magued

 

[Wadidiz]

Paying reffs..

Originally posted by Magued
Sure no problemo!

How much do you think its enough? 100-200 Usd per day? Hell I could go for 500 usd / day. Its all comming out from your entre fee anyway.

Let me see if we should pay the reffs lets say 100 Usd and we have like 40 reffs/ Day that is 4000 usd
3 days that would be 12 000 usd

At Joy Masters we had 65 teams. Divide 12 000 usd in 65 = 184 usd / team in reffing salary costs
That would make a event like Joy cost each player 23 usd more. Not so expensive, but the question is does it make the reffs better?

Magued

Maybe Millennium has no problemo the way it is. I'll put the same answer here as I put on the Swedish forum:

That's a good question and you, of course, know what kind of margins you have to operate with when putting on a big tournament. I've seen first hand what kind of blood, sweat and tears you have to give to get up a good tournament and you certainly deserve any profit you can get.

I just have to say that it is definitely not fair for NPPL refs to get paid $100 per day (for the miserable job some of them do) and for Millennium judges to not get paid anything or a whole lot less. But then, maybe, it is a whole other system here. If what I hear about the World Cup is true, they couldn't get enough refs despite the higher pay. Millennium doesn't seem to have this problem for some reason despite the requirement for more refs per player.

So, if it's not broke, don't fix it. If you and the other promoters can get enough quality judges for series points only, then go for it. If you have to fill in with paid refs then I think the pay I suggest ($100 for entry-level, $125 for senior and more experienced refs and $200 for head-field judges) is more than reasonable.

Another question that comes to mind is: what will happen if Chuck Hendsch's NPPL with 7-player format comes a lot closer to Millennium? Their rules require $100 per day.

Concerning the question if more pay would mean better judging: no question. Just like in any enterprise, if you pay more you will get more recruits and therefore can be more selective.

PS. I'll repeat: if the quality of Millennium judging is very good, which all indications show me it is, then we can go with the status quo. No need to change that part of anything.

Steve

 

[Buddha 3]

Paying reffs..

Originally posted by Magued
Sure no problemo!

How much do you think its enough? 100-200 Usd per day? Hell I could go for 500 usd / day. Its all comming out from your entre fee anyway.

Let me see if we should pay the reffs lets say 100 Usd and we have like 40 reffs/ Day that is 4000 usd
3 days that would be 12 000 usd

At Joy Masters we had 65 teams. Divide 12 000 usd in 65 = 184 usd / team in reffing salary costs
That would make a event like Joy cost each player 23 usd more. Not so expensive, but the question is does it make the reffs better?

Magued

As you point out, the cost is not too prohibitive.
Does it make refs better? Well, Steve already pointed something out, but if you pay someone, it also gives you the right to make certain demands. It'll be dead easy to set up a contract stating what exactly is expected from judges in order for them to get paid.

 

[Wadidiz]

Paying reffs..

Originally posted by Magued
Sure no problemo!

How much do you think its enough? 100-200 Usd per day? Hell I could go for 500 usd / day. Its all comming out from your entre fee anyway.

Let me see if we should pay the reffs lets say 100 Usd and we have like 40 reffs/ Day that is 4000 usd
3 days that would be 12 000 usd

At Joy Masters we had 65 teams. Divide 12 000 usd in 65 = 184 usd / team in reffing salary costs
That would make a event like Joy cost each player 23 usd more. Not so expensive, but the question is does it make the reffs better?

Magued

I just found out that the promoter pays for all hotel and food expenses for the judges. So if we take your figures and look at the cost of lodging and eating in Stockholm I would say you would be lucky to get by with a cost per judge of €50 per day per judge. That's a guess at what you're already paying. Since you have at least 10 of those judges who live locally then you don't need to pay hotel and food for those people.

So we have a new formula for additional costs:

40 judges who, according to my suggestions, should cost the tournament promoter an additional €50 per day.

40 x €50 = €2000 x 3 days = €6000

Total additional costs: €6000

€6000 divided by 65 = €92.31 per team or €11.53 per player (if you divide by 8). That's less than the price of a dinner at TGI Friday's. And that puts a little well-earned money into the hosting team's coffers or gives them a little party money.

Just to make the picture a tiny bit clearer.

Steve