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prize money in the Millennium

Fat-Frank

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Since we are so way of the original topic already..;)
Robbo said:
I was having a meal with my wife, minding my own business and I get a phone call from Herr Ulrich and he insults me ..
From one paintballdude to another.. Shut of the phone when you finally spend time alone with your wife Sir :) :) At least that will keep her happy..

Take care, keep your bloodpressure down :eek: look forward to see you in Bitburg.
 

crazzzy

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Nick Brockdorff said:
I maintain that Ulrich is doing a good job so far this year in regards to managing the refs and the rules (based solely on what I saw in Marseille).... Nick
Nick, did you see the rulebook in Marseille?
Nope, didnt think so.
Why?
IT WAS NOT RELEASED!

I find it hard to share your views on Ulrich doing a good job when not even the official rules are released before the first event. We were told by Ulrich that last years rules with some changes posted on the Mill website would be in force. We didnt have access to internet connection down there so we could not get hold of the changes and the series didnt have any copies to give us. Now that is unprofessional to the max! You pay an aweful lot of money and they cant even release the rules for the first event. Must have to do with bad organisational skills.
 

Robbo

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Fat-Frank said:
Since we are so way of the original topic already..;)


From one paintballdude to another.. Shut of the phone when you finally spend time alone with your wife Sir :) :) At least that will keep her happy..

Take care, keep your bloodpressure down :eek: look forward to see you in Bitburg.

Frank, I got no problem in keeping my phone switched on (she's used to that), it's just that I didn't expect that level of disrespect to be shoved down my throat along with the sirloin steak, he gave me indigestion.
Come to think of it, he spolied that meal for us, I think he now owes me the money for it .....hmmmmmmmmm.......:(
 

PEBBLE

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When we reffed Amsterdam 05, they paid for the hotel, but the hotel was like a 3 quarters of an hour drive, and we had to find our own transport (and pay for it) it was like 60 euros each way, so 2 or 3 taxi's for one trip cost 180 euros just to the site and 180 euros back for 3 days!

we told Ulrich but he kind of shrugged us of his shoulder
 

Bngi

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crazzzy said:
Nick, did you see the rulebook in Marseille?
Nope, didnt think so.
Why?
IT WAS NOT RELEASED!

I find it hard to share your views on Ulrich doing a good job when not even the official rules are released before the first event. We were told by Ulrich that last years rules with some changes posted on the Mill website would be in force. We didnt have access to internet connection down there so we could not get hold of the changes and the series didnt have any copies to give us. Now that is unprofessional to the max! You pay an aweful lot of money and they cant even release the rules for the first event. Must have to do with bad organisational skills.

Its still not releasead. They dont even have the 05 rules on the site...How can they even mention "Changes"?
 

Wadidiz

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crazzzy said:
Nick, did you see the rulebook in Marseille?
Nope, didnt think so.
Why?
IT WAS NOT RELEASED!

I find it hard to share your views on Ulrich doing a good job when not even the official rules are released before the first event. We were told by Ulrich that last years rules with some changes posted on the Mill website would be in force. We didnt have access to internet connection down there so we could not get hold of the changes and the series didnt have any copies to give us. Now that is unprofessional to the max! You pay an aweful lot of money and they cant even release the rules for the first event. Must have to do with bad organisational skills.
I don't know anything about Ulrich's conversation with Robbo but I can say that he shouldn't be blamed for things he has absolutely no control over, namely the rules and the budget. Those are not in any way his area of responsibility. He just has to do the best he can with the rules (or lack thereof) handed to him and ditto the money.
 

tiger jedi

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Nick Brockdorff said:
This got me curious - so I just did the math on Huntington beach too :D

$509,900 entry fees total
$95,000 prizes total

Prizes percentage of entries: 18.63%

I WANT TO BE A TOURNAMENT PROMOTER IN MY NEXT LIFE :D

Seriously... I honestly believe prizes should be much higher in major leagues.... something like 30¤ of the entry fees sounds just about right....

Nick
PRIZE MONEY HMMMM.........

I will give you some info from a promoter/player. On average (over 3 years) we have 40 teams all paying an average of £400 pounds per team £16000 & we have on average given over £8000 in prizes (Approx 50%) but thats the whole reason i started the Euro 5 Man was to prove we can have better:

Stadium Venues
Lower entry fees (Average £400 / min 12 games)
More Prizes (Approx 50% entrys)
Secure Trade areas
Value for the vendors (from £200 per stall)
Etc Etc

For example last year Campaign probably took in over £200,000 in entrys & sponsors etc, we took about £26,000 but we were the one's inside a 4.2 Million Stadium & dont get me wrong Nial is a great guy & Campaign 05 was a good event but no way 10 times bigger or better than Euro 5 Man 05 ask anyone that was there.

I dont mind if some of the large pofits are being invested back in but i just dont see much improvment in the important stuff like Media awarness, Marshalling, rules & especially customer relations. Stupidly high entrys, crap prizes, crap marshalls, crap rules & those I.D cards are just plain wrong.


The millennium have been ripping us for years becouse they know we have nothing else like it & its not just the players either the Trade are also being raped. The PSP or the old NPPL were exactly the same they knew they could take the pi$$ so they did until WDP or Pure Promotions stepped up.

At this moment they have the monopoly & until someone else like the NPPL comes along we will never be treated like customers & you cant really blame them either its the same in any money making industry. There thats it ive said it i will now crawl back into my hole until next year .;) :D :cool:

P.S Sorry Nial & sorry about the Grammer in a rush:p
 

Nick Brockdorff

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Warren - nice little bit of promotion for your events there ;)

Why would the NPPL be any better, when their payout percentage is worse - in a market where they compete with the PSP?

I think we just have to resign ourselves to the fact that this is one thing that will not change, as long as we are not organised..... and the way things look, we never will be :)

Personally, I have no idea what the "take" is for the promoters at an average MS event when all expenses are paid, but it would be interesting if you took at stab at it, with your indepth knowledge of what the expenses are (and factoring in shipping cost and insurance over a full year rather than just one event)....

According to my calculations, they have something like € 215,000 left per event when the prize money is paid :)

Nick
 

Robbo

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Nick Brockdorff said:
Warren - nice little bit of promotion for your events there ;)

Why would the NPPL be any better, when their payout percentage is worse - in a market where they compete with the PSP?

I think we just have to resign ourselves to the fact that this is one thing that will not change, as long as we are not organised..... and the way things look, we never will be :)

Personally, I have no idea what the "take" is for the promoters at an average MS event when all expenses are paid, but it would be interesting if you took at stab at it, with your indepth knowledge of what the expenses are (and factoring in shipping cost and insurance over a full year rather than just one event)....

According to my calculations, they have something like € 215,000 left per event when the prize money is paid :)

Nick

I don't mind Warren doing a LITTLE bit of self -promo here (take the hint here Warren) as long as it gives us an insight into scales of profitability which I think it has done.
I don't think Warren's tourney (although well run and well situated)
is an exact similarly because the Millennium guys incur expenses he does not but then again, the MS have a lot more teams.
In fact, good luck to the MS for making some money, if it weren't for them we wouldn't have a serious tournament series in Europe but.......and here's the kicker because it is a big kicker, the MS have completely lost sight of the fact we are its customers. They treat us like sh!t sometimes, they have certainly done so with me on occasions and all I have ever tried to do is what's right by everybody I have argued for.

I never start out being an ******* but I certainly turn into one when they dig their heels over something soooo wrong or do something soooooo unthinking.
And the irony is, on all of the issues we have had problems with whether it was the 800 Euro thingy they held back from the pro teams or the unfair exclusion mandate they slapped upon 3 of the pro teams this year, each time they have had to U turn on and not because I managed to drag some big guns into it (tho it helped) because ultimately it was the RIGHT thing to do.
Laurent eventually made the right call both times on his return from the US and mandated the change.
I ain't saying the big guns I got involved in the last conflict didn't help, (they did) but these industry people would have been ineffectual had the point of contention been 'wrong' in nature.

The legacy from this confrontation is only ever remembered by some of that board as a negative (and something to be revenged) and thus any further problems I have with them are only ever treated with the past conflicts in mind, and it is this philosophy on their parts that determines the way things now go.
Some of these guys need to grow up or leave and yet when they read this, they won't ever feel it incumbent upon themselves to look at how they do business, it's much easier for them, and I know they do this, to blame me for being an ******* and to write off any further problems in this way.

In this way they save themselves the trouble and embarrassment of having to look at what they do themselves :rolleyes:
This policy is almost infantile in its construction and so damaging to the way the MS view and respond to its customer base.... we are it seems, people to be continually told what to do, to be punished when we step out of THEIR line, to be ignored when it doesn't suit them and to be treated as miscreants instead of customers.

When they read this, well when some of them do, (I know their thought processes) will think, 'Oh it's just Robbo sounding off again, how can we stop him, he must be in the NPPL's payroll now in trying to undermine us so they can come in over here in Europe, oh he's a trouble maker' etc, etc, etc !

Do they ever look in-wards and think it could be them?
Some might, others on that board definitely do not.

The one saving grace in all this is Laurent, he is the powerhouse in that group, he's the one guy who should lead them and thankfully he is in most practical terms, doing just that but he can't do everything.

And this is why delegation is so important to him because he has other concerns, he has a business, a magazine and soo many more things on his plate with the MS being a small part of his concern portfolio.
This chink in the MS armour leaves other less able people to take over some responsibilities that they should stay well away from.

Good businesses take customer feedback as a positive and restructure their approach or practices accordingly, some guys on this board see criticism as as a challenge to their authority and act accordingly...:rolleyes:

The answer to all this?
They need to listen to their customers, the teams, the players and the vendors, they of course would respond in shoving out the rhetoric, 'Oh but we do, we always listen, we try to respond, you are are customers' blah, blah, blah but I'm afraid actions speak louder than words ........... and it is what they do and what they have done that speaks volumes.

I trust Laurent to do the right thing but he needs to impose himself more.
Barry Fuggle is new on the board and is still finding his feet but he too needs to impose more.
Manfred sits in the background, he definitely needs to involve himself more but his business takes precedence (and rightfully so) and so his practical input is at best, occasional.

Ulrich basically needs to go because I think characters like him can't change their personality or work practices sufficiently to encompass notions such as 'customer care' and flexibility, both of which are crucial to the job he is supposed to be doing.

I have PMs and emails in my respective in-boxes that tell me things need to change and applauding my stance on issues and asking for further action on certain other issues, I ain't after anybody's thanks or support, that ain't why I am doing this.
These people have messaged me because they feel as though nothing they could ever do can change things and they feel maybe now, would be a good time to jump on any bandwagon to get these changes effected.

It's a sad time when customers feel like this because it's an important indicator as to how far the Millennium Board have estranged their customer base...the MS really need to start listening because if they don't and another series hits town...well I don't have to spell that out..and I ain't hinting at just the NPPL here !!!!!!!

I am doing it because I want for all of us a better tournament circuit for pro, Am, Novice and vendor and as soon as some of those guys on that Millennium Board realise this (and it's not just me being an *******) then the quicker we can all get along and have a tournament series we can all be proud of.

Whether people believe it or not, I do not like conflict, my life chugs along much better without it but I will not stand by and watch people either fcuk me over or other ballers .... they can never and will never shut me up .. they know this ...

The vendors recenlty got together and got things changed, they showed solidarity, commonsense and a professional attitude but most imporatntly solidarity of intent.
The likes of Ledzy (Planet) , Piper (PMI), Jeff Abbott (Dye), Webby (SP), Matt Green (WDP) and so on, all had a meet and organised themselves and then represented thier concerns to the MS and what happened ?
They got things changed.....and do you know why they were listened to whereas before they were ignored ?
I really shouldn't have to spell that out....

As players, what do we have?
We have sweet fcuk all !!!!!!!
All the time we do not organise ourselves into a coherent body to represent oursleves and our interests to the MS then we have nothing ... perhaps it's good timing for something to be done here... think about that for a moment ....over to you lot !
 

markfenton

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Nov 4, 2005
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Sorry Pete for being stupid but:

What U Turn did the MS do on the last event, I read the problems that you were having Pete, Huntington Beach falling on the same dates, (Not good in anyones books). But quote me if im wrong, You couldn't field your Nexus Squad and if you didn't send a team you would have lost your place in the pro ladder. Is this correct so far? I thought the original options the MS gave you, were play another team under the Nexus banner (Which you did ) or drop out of MS or NPPL (that option wasn't really a option). So this is the bit I must of missed down the line somewhere, What did Laurent do?, You still had the same options as far as I can see.

The only thing that I may have missed is that Laurent spoke to your sponsors for you, to let you play another team under the Nexus banner.

But where do the BIG GUNS get involved? Nothing really changed, you played another team, what was one of the original option, I'm Confused. (But it doesnt take alot to be honest)

Sorry if this is a pain in the arse but wanted to clear it up, as it keeps cropping up in different threads on here.