PGI under attack !!
- Thread starter Mark
- Start date
Learn the Difference between facts and one sided stories...
1)series of kinappings including Americans in the 80's
2)suicide truck bombing of a marine barracks in Beirut killing 200 marines
3)1985 hijacking of TWA flight 847
4)1992 Israeli Embassy bombing killing 29
4)1994 bombing of a Jewish community center killing 95
),sanctions are lifted and evrything is fine and dandy with the world....Then 10 years down the line he revives his chemical programs and kills his people,builds a nuke and threatens the Middle East with it...Im sure then I would here you complain that its are fault and we didnt do anything about it so blah blah blah..This is about not repeating are mistakes from the past..And as long as you dont look at things OBJECTIVELY,you'll bitch no matter what the circumstance...
And the U.N. in my eyes has become an obsolite circle of debating countries who run every time the face of evil presents itself...They were a big help in Yugoslavia and again a big help here with Iraq....
Couple of weeks Duff and thier aint a thing your anti-Bush-Blair-war protests is gonna do about preventing the Liberation of a whole nation of oppressed people...
__________________
He wants NUKES too buddy and we didnt give him those...And if he didnt have chemical weapons he would use those instead...If Israel didnt slam a few into his reactor we would be in the same position as we are in North Korea playing games so they dont throw a nuke at Seoul...Its unbelievable that we have a man bent on control of the whole Middle East and you blame where weapons are coming from...
15 nations imposed sanctions against him for his invasion of Kuwait...Keep blaming U.S. policy all you want but those Iraqi's have died as a direct result of Saddam Hussien and no one else...And in about 3 weeks we'll be well on our way to having those sanctions lifted when Iraq is liberated from a madman and his government...
Please look at the whole picture and not 1 story which you seem to excel at....Go to your local library,grab yourself a copy of the Israeli-Arab conflict and come back when you know what your talking about instead of reading one thing...But im sure you'll come back and tell me Hizbollah had nothing to do with any of the strikes above and even after Israel withdrew from Lebanon..Heres some facts about Hizbollah who you so eagerly seem to defend
1)series of kinappings including Americans in the 80's
2)suicide truck bombing of a marine barracks in Beirut killing 200 marines
3)1985 hijacking of TWA flight 847
4)1992 Israeli Embassy bombing killing 29
4)1994 bombing of a Jewish community center killing 95
You really are unbelievable...Say we dont go to Iraq and Saddam stays in power..Saddam gives up his weapons (which you say he doesnt have
),sanctions are lifted and evrything is fine and dandy with the world....Then 10 years down the line he revives his chemical programs and kills his people,builds a nuke and threatens the Middle East with it...Im sure then I would here you complain that its are fault and we didnt do anything about it so blah blah blah..This is about not repeating are mistakes from the past..And as long as you dont look at things OBJECTIVELY,you'll bitch no matter what the circumstance...Dont group Muslims with terrorist groups...Theres plenty of people who want peace me included but not until terrorist groups like the ones listed above are wiped from our planet...Those groups want 1 thing Duff,and thats the annihalation of Israel...They dont want peace and they will use every resource to make sure it doesnt happen..But its amazing that you've probably attended more anti-Bush-Blair-war protests than anti- terrorism,anti-Saddam marches...I think you priorities are are out of whack...Why not march for the millions of hungry and dying North Koreans who suffer everyday while Kim Jong Il orders 200 S-Class Mercedes at 200,000 a pop and eats cavier daily??Now wait,wait for it,thats are fault too right???
Hmm..Russia said today if Iraq doesnt start complying they will back another resolution favoring war...France will be on board so dont be fooled by what they say now and China never vetoes anything...So that would leave US,UK,France,Russia,Italy,Australia,Canada and a whole slew of other nations liberating Iraq..And dont try and fool me,you'll still find something to bitch about...
Yep I do believe that a dead Saddam will make the world a safer place..And nope,terrorism wont decrease as long as free people live in a free world...
And the U.N. in my eyes has become an obsolite circle of debating countries who run every time the face of evil presents itself...They were a big help in Yugoslavia and again a big help here with Iraq....
Couple of weeks Duff and thier aint a thing your anti-Bush-Blair-war protests is gonna do about preventing the Liberation of a whole nation of oppressed people...
Ill pass..I heard those things get pretty violent sometimes....
__________________
Me and Duff are at odds about the future of paintball in Iraq...I believe Iraqi's will never get a chance to share in our passion with Saddam in power and Duff does..Im thinking maybe we can convince Saddam into doing a weapons-for-markers program..Figure 1 weapon of mass destruction for a Tippman and 500 paintballs but me thinks thats just wishful thinking..And with 1000 paintball threads all around this place I find it hard to believe you cant find 1 other that sparks your interest besides this 1
But if ya wanna talk about uptight Americans and what we think of porn keep on going..Just do your best to block out Duff and mines sideshow....
But if ya wanna talk about uptight Americans and what we think of porn keep on going..Just do your best to block out Duff and mines sideshow....
i seem to remember a certain mr. clarkson of top gear fame getting a TV show......which other than being piss funny......showed how to make suck potato propelling devices useing hairspray......
.......hmmm.......TV is evil
.......hmmm.......TV is evil
Headrock, I think you're missing out on what you and Duff ARE agreeing on. Steve said he'd love it if the U.N. would go in and straighten everything out, which is obviously what you want. His point is that he wants us to stick with it and actually think long-dollar. We always seem to go in and half-ass everything. Offing Saddam won't fix our troubles IF THAT'S ALL WE DO. I'm certain Steve doesn't want me to speak for him, but I think he's getting at this; get in there, get rid of Saddam, do what we've got to do to set up a real government, take care of the people we're supposed to be liberating, and get their country in line with the U.N. EVERYONE needs to get involved, but how likely is this? You're right, the U.N. is so inefficient I fear for any 'liberated' country that's depending on them for aid and guidance. Everyone wants their slice of the pie, it'll be like China in 1900, we'll go in to 'help', and then just sorta' 'help ourselves'. I'm not just talking America here, none of us have any delusions as to how everyones' governments work.
You guys should discuss how best to deal with this whole situation, post-invasion, as you've both basically agreed that getting rid of Saddam is good. Hmmm? No? Alright.
You guys should discuss how best to deal with this whole situation, post-invasion, as you've both basically agreed that getting rid of Saddam is good. Hmmm? No? Alright.
Maybe...
But after he said Hussien doesn't have Weapons of Mass Destruction,threw in the oil conspiracy theory,and invited me to an anti-war protest i believe he really wants appeasement as a way out of this mess and that just wont work..I just find it very disturbing that anti-Bush-Blair-America takes a front seat ahead of the real and scary problem laid out before us..But maybe im wrong...When he responds we'll find out..Now while I agree that us bickering over prior events through history wont get us anywhere, but after Sept.11th,and you being from the States surely has to understand,that certain things(as bad as they are),need to be done to protect American lives at all cost..Im from New York City...I witnessed the devestation first hand and its something that I would never wish for anyone to have to live through....And to think with the weapons he has,in the wrong hands,would make Sept.11th look like a picnic...(Udai Hussiens own words)....
And you've brought up some great points about the U.N. and what a post war Iraq will look like....Now understand,I also dont want to go it alone but if we had no choice I believe we could do it..The last thing I want is a peace keeping force post Saddam consisting of solely U.S. troops so the need for a multinational coalition would definately be welcome..But again,if we had to go alone so be it....And even again today we see nations fed up with Saddams non-compliance,so I think were heading down the right path....
And ya had to get me started on the U.N. huh....More and more they show me just how meaningless they are in most matters...Maybe its time nations like Japan,and India,likeminded and reasonable nations get thier chance to make an impact regarding world affairs...Its amazing that Gemany,birthplace of Nazism,and France who know alot about being liberated would deny Iraq the same privledges that they enjoy today..I find it more and more disturbing how we forget the past so easily....But as I said in a prior post,now the world understands why Germany will never have permanant veto power in the U.N....
And to make my point even more compelling chew on this for awhile:
1)Libya now heads up our human right commision
2)Iraq in May is scheduled to take over as Chairman of the U.N. Conference on Disarmament
All the best Manning...
-6
But after he said Hussien doesn't have Weapons of Mass Destruction,threw in the oil conspiracy theory,and invited me to an anti-war protest i believe he really wants appeasement as a way out of this mess and that just wont work..I just find it very disturbing that anti-Bush-Blair-America takes a front seat ahead of the real and scary problem laid out before us..But maybe im wrong...When he responds we'll find out..Now while I agree that us bickering over prior events through history wont get us anywhere, but after Sept.11th,and you being from the States surely has to understand,that certain things(as bad as they are),need to be done to protect American lives at all cost..Im from New York City...I witnessed the devestation first hand and its something that I would never wish for anyone to have to live through....And to think with the weapons he has,in the wrong hands,would make Sept.11th look like a picnic...(Udai Hussiens own words)....
And you've brought up some great points about the U.N. and what a post war Iraq will look like....Now understand,I also dont want to go it alone but if we had no choice I believe we could do it..The last thing I want is a peace keeping force post Saddam consisting of solely U.S. troops so the need for a multinational coalition would definately be welcome..But again,if we had to go alone so be it....And even again today we see nations fed up with Saddams non-compliance,so I think were heading down the right path....
And ya had to get me started on the U.N. huh....More and more they show me just how meaningless they are in most matters...Maybe its time nations like Japan,and India,likeminded and reasonable nations get thier chance to make an impact regarding world affairs...Its amazing that Gemany,birthplace of Nazism,and France who know alot about being liberated would deny Iraq the same privledges that they enjoy today..I find it more and more disturbing how we forget the past so easily....But as I said in a prior post,now the world understands why Germany will never have permanant veto power in the U.N....
And to make my point even more compelling chew on this for awhile:
1)Libya now heads up our human right commision
2)Iraq in May is scheduled to take over as Chairman of the U.N. Conference on Disarmament
All the best Manning...
-6
Well, it works.
Does anyone have passenger side window for a renault clio? A potato seems to have been launched through my next door neighbours.
Does anyone have passenger side window for a renault clio? A potato seems to have been launched through my next door neighbours.
D
duffistuta
Guest
>>>He wants NUKES too buddy and we didnt give him those...And if he didnt have chemical weapons he would use those instead...If Israel didnt slam a few into his reactor we would be in the same position as we are in North Korea playing games so they dont throw a nuke at Seoul...Its unbelievable that we have a man bent on control of the whole Middle East and you blame where weapons are coming from...
Oh, so it’s OK we gave him weapons that can kill thousands of people, but not millions? Go back to our gunshop owner: ‘Hey, good job I only sold that psycho a pistol so he could only off 10 schoolkids – If I’d sold him an AK he could have done maybe 60.’ What’s unbelievable mate is that you place no importance on the fact that we gave him these weapons…it’s like listening to Dubya and it’s all part of the short-termist strategy that got us here, which you seem to ignore.
>>>15 nations imposed sanctions against him for his invasion of Kuwait...Keep blaming U.S. policy all you want but those Iraqi's have died as a direct result of Saddam Hussien and no one else...And in about 3 weeks we'll be well on our way to having those sanctions lifted when Iraq is liberated from a madman and his government...
Mate, I blame all of them and Saddam – lots of wrongs don’t make a right. As for Iraq being ‘liberated’ – we’ll see. I hope you’re right.
>>>Please look at the whole picture and not 1 story which you seem to excel at....
They are FACTS and facts which you have chosen to ignore for the purposes of argument. Deal with them or drop it.
>>>Go to your local library,grab yourself a copy of the Israeli-Arab conflict and come back when you know what your talking about instead of reading one thing...But im sure you'll come back and tell me Hizbollah had nothing to do with any of the strikes above and even after Israel withdrew from Lebanon..Heres some facts about Hizbollah who you so eagerly seem to defend
1)series of kinappings including Americans in the 80's
2)suicide truck bombing of a marine barracks in Beirut killing 200 marines
3)1985 hijacking of TWA flight 847
4)1992 Israeli Embassy bombing killing 29
4)1994 bombing of a Jewish community center killing 95
Hey, let’s swap killing stats all day while you ignore the FACTS I posted before. Bottom line is this: the Palestinian question needs sorting out, I believe that is the key to solving this entire issue. I see blame on both sides, terror on one, terror and aggressive expansionism on the other – both heads need knocking together and a solution needs to be hammered out. Your view – and correct me if I’m wrong – is that it’s all nasty Palestinian terrorists fault and poor innocent Israel is the victim. The FACTS prove this to be incorrect and you are avoiding them. I am not defending Hizbollah, I am saying there is blame on both sides…you seem to believe otherwise, in the face of the facts.
>>>You really are unbelievable...Say we dont go to Iraq and Saddam stays in power..Saddam gives up his weapons (which you say he doesnt have ),sanctions are lifted and evrything is fine and dandy with the world....Then 10 years down the line he revives his chemical programs and kills his people,builds a nuke and threatens the Middle East with it...Im sure then I would here you complain that its are fault and we didnt do anything about it so blah blah blah..This is about not repeating are mistakes from the past..And as long as you dont look at things OBJECTIVELY,you'll bitch no matter what the circumstance...
And you are unbelievable – read your own words. If If If…I can say that about 50 countries, many of whom the West supports. You would base policy on what ifs and maybes? And if you drop your dogma and go back to my summation, you’ll see that I DO want the situation sorted out, but as part of a measured, long term approach which deals with all such regimes. You, on the other hand, appear to want to kick saddam’s ass and go back into your shell, which will solve **** all.
>>>Dont group Muslims with terrorist groups...Theres plenty of people who want peace me included but not until terrorist groups like the ones listed above are wiped from our planet...Those groups want 1 thing Duff,and thats the annihalation of Israel...They dont want peace and they will use every resource to make sure it doesnt happen..
Yep, there are terrorists on both sides that need dealing with, but you seem to think the only terrorists are from Muslim groups.
>>>But its amazing that you've probably attended more anti-Bush-Blair-war protests than anti- terrorism
Hey, there’s an idea…let’s go on anti-terrorism marches so the terrorists see that we don’t like terror attacks, then maybe they’ll stop. The point of marches to express your opinion to the powers that be – I’m not sure but I suspect that terrorists already know we don’t like them killing us.
>>>Why not march for the millions of hungry and dying North Koreans who suffer everyday while Kim Jong Il orders 200 S-Class Mercedes at 200,000 a pop and eats cavier daily??Now wait,wait for it,thats are fault too right???
I would -t hat situation needs sorting out mate, I agree with you, it’s one for the list along with Palestine and China, and as I have also said I have no problems with sensible action on Iraq and all these places, I welcome it provided it is done correctly.
>>>Hmm..Russia said today if Iraq doesnt start complying they will back another resolution favoring war...France will be on board so dont be fooled by what they say now and China never vetoes anything...So that would leave US,UK,France,Russia,Italy,Australia,Canada and a whole slew of other nations liberating Iraq..And dont try and fool me,you'll still find something to bitch about...
Please don’t prejudge me, as you seem to keep doing…as I said before, IF the UN sanction action and that is a start point for dealing with ALL regimes of terror then I’m all for it. I am not being blinkered and dogmatic – you are.
>>>And the U.N. in my eyes has become an obsolite circle of debating countries who run every time the face of evil presents itself...They were a big help in Yugoslavia and again a big help here with Iraq....
Do you think that maybe the US attitude of ‘listen to the UN and demand everyone else does when it suits us, ignore it the rest of the time’ may have something to do with the UN’s weakness?
>>>Couple of weeks Duff and thier aint a thing your anti-Bush-Blair-war protests is gonna do about preventing the Liberation of a whole nation of oppressed people...
And as I have said, as long as it’s the start of helping the oppressed everywhere and it’s done correctly, good. You are simply repeating Dubya’s black or white, for or against us, overly simplistic arguments time and time again Headrock.
Maybe you haven’t noticed or don’t care, but public opinion in the UK and Europe is massively anti-war – and the last poll I saw from the US showed 56% of your population is opposed to conflict. Maybe, like me, they’re sick of seeing piecemeal efforts made and political expediency disguised as morality, and want to see a concerted programme that will deal with these issues properly and progressively.
Bush says America’s destiny is to be the great righter of wrongs, and I firmly believe it could be if it makes the right choices, but until I see a concerted attempt to solve the Palestinian question I will believe that Bush and Blair are pursuing their own geopolitical aims in the Middle East and that conflict in Iraq is likely to worsen the terrorist situation which you believe it will help avoid.
As I said before, I hope you’re right cos war's a coming...
Oh, so it’s OK we gave him weapons that can kill thousands of people, but not millions? Go back to our gunshop owner: ‘Hey, good job I only sold that psycho a pistol so he could only off 10 schoolkids – If I’d sold him an AK he could have done maybe 60.’ What’s unbelievable mate is that you place no importance on the fact that we gave him these weapons…it’s like listening to Dubya and it’s all part of the short-termist strategy that got us here, which you seem to ignore.
>>>15 nations imposed sanctions against him for his invasion of Kuwait...Keep blaming U.S. policy all you want but those Iraqi's have died as a direct result of Saddam Hussien and no one else...And in about 3 weeks we'll be well on our way to having those sanctions lifted when Iraq is liberated from a madman and his government...
Mate, I blame all of them and Saddam – lots of wrongs don’t make a right. As for Iraq being ‘liberated’ – we’ll see. I hope you’re right.
>>>Please look at the whole picture and not 1 story which you seem to excel at....
They are FACTS and facts which you have chosen to ignore for the purposes of argument. Deal with them or drop it.
>>>Go to your local library,grab yourself a copy of the Israeli-Arab conflict and come back when you know what your talking about instead of reading one thing...But im sure you'll come back and tell me Hizbollah had nothing to do with any of the strikes above and even after Israel withdrew from Lebanon..Heres some facts about Hizbollah who you so eagerly seem to defend
1)series of kinappings including Americans in the 80's
2)suicide truck bombing of a marine barracks in Beirut killing 200 marines
3)1985 hijacking of TWA flight 847
4)1992 Israeli Embassy bombing killing 29
4)1994 bombing of a Jewish community center killing 95
Hey, let’s swap killing stats all day while you ignore the FACTS I posted before. Bottom line is this: the Palestinian question needs sorting out, I believe that is the key to solving this entire issue. I see blame on both sides, terror on one, terror and aggressive expansionism on the other – both heads need knocking together and a solution needs to be hammered out. Your view – and correct me if I’m wrong – is that it’s all nasty Palestinian terrorists fault and poor innocent Israel is the victim. The FACTS prove this to be incorrect and you are avoiding them. I am not defending Hizbollah, I am saying there is blame on both sides…you seem to believe otherwise, in the face of the facts.
>>>You really are unbelievable...Say we dont go to Iraq and Saddam stays in power..Saddam gives up his weapons (which you say he doesnt have ),sanctions are lifted and evrything is fine and dandy with the world....Then 10 years down the line he revives his chemical programs and kills his people,builds a nuke and threatens the Middle East with it...Im sure then I would here you complain that its are fault and we didnt do anything about it so blah blah blah..This is about not repeating are mistakes from the past..And as long as you dont look at things OBJECTIVELY,you'll bitch no matter what the circumstance...
And you are unbelievable – read your own words. If If If…I can say that about 50 countries, many of whom the West supports. You would base policy on what ifs and maybes? And if you drop your dogma and go back to my summation, you’ll see that I DO want the situation sorted out, but as part of a measured, long term approach which deals with all such regimes. You, on the other hand, appear to want to kick saddam’s ass and go back into your shell, which will solve **** all.
>>>Dont group Muslims with terrorist groups...Theres plenty of people who want peace me included but not until terrorist groups like the ones listed above are wiped from our planet...Those groups want 1 thing Duff,and thats the annihalation of Israel...They dont want peace and they will use every resource to make sure it doesnt happen..
Yep, there are terrorists on both sides that need dealing with, but you seem to think the only terrorists are from Muslim groups.
>>>But its amazing that you've probably attended more anti-Bush-Blair-war protests than anti- terrorism
Hey, there’s an idea…let’s go on anti-terrorism marches so the terrorists see that we don’t like terror attacks, then maybe they’ll stop. The point of marches to express your opinion to the powers that be – I’m not sure but I suspect that terrorists already know we don’t like them killing us.
>>>Why not march for the millions of hungry and dying North Koreans who suffer everyday while Kim Jong Il orders 200 S-Class Mercedes at 200,000 a pop and eats cavier daily??Now wait,wait for it,thats are fault too right???
I would -t hat situation needs sorting out mate, I agree with you, it’s one for the list along with Palestine and China, and as I have also said I have no problems with sensible action on Iraq and all these places, I welcome it provided it is done correctly.
>>>Hmm..Russia said today if Iraq doesnt start complying they will back another resolution favoring war...France will be on board so dont be fooled by what they say now and China never vetoes anything...So that would leave US,UK,France,Russia,Italy,Australia,Canada and a whole slew of other nations liberating Iraq..And dont try and fool me,you'll still find something to bitch about...
Please don’t prejudge me, as you seem to keep doing…as I said before, IF the UN sanction action and that is a start point for dealing with ALL regimes of terror then I’m all for it. I am not being blinkered and dogmatic – you are.
>>>And the U.N. in my eyes has become an obsolite circle of debating countries who run every time the face of evil presents itself...They were a big help in Yugoslavia and again a big help here with Iraq....
Do you think that maybe the US attitude of ‘listen to the UN and demand everyone else does when it suits us, ignore it the rest of the time’ may have something to do with the UN’s weakness?
>>>Couple of weeks Duff and thier aint a thing your anti-Bush-Blair-war protests is gonna do about preventing the Liberation of a whole nation of oppressed people...
And as I have said, as long as it’s the start of helping the oppressed everywhere and it’s done correctly, good. You are simply repeating Dubya’s black or white, for or against us, overly simplistic arguments time and time again Headrock.
Maybe you haven’t noticed or don’t care, but public opinion in the UK and Europe is massively anti-war – and the last poll I saw from the US showed 56% of your population is opposed to conflict. Maybe, like me, they’re sick of seeing piecemeal efforts made and political expediency disguised as morality, and want to see a concerted programme that will deal with these issues properly and progressively.
Bush says America’s destiny is to be the great righter of wrongs, and I firmly believe it could be if it makes the right choices, but until I see a concerted attempt to solve the Palestinian question I will believe that Bush and Blair are pursuing their own geopolitical aims in the Middle East and that conflict in Iraq is likely to worsen the terrorist situation which you believe it will help avoid.
As I said before, I hope you’re right cos war's a coming...
Yup, free the oppressed masses in Iraq, just like we did last time. I'm sure they'd rather be blown to crap by freedom loving cruise missiles than be alive and oppressed.