D
duffistuta
Guest
Right 6, let's go...
>>>what difference does it make where he got (weapons of mass destruction) from?
I can't believe you wrote that. If I own a gun shop and I sell an AK47 to a man I know is an unbalanced homicidal killer and he then goes onto use that gun, don't you think I'm just a little responsible for that? You know when we kepp selling weapons to dictators across the world 6 - we know they're gonna use 'em. We only get pissed when they decide to use em on us...and if you don't see what's wrong with that picture then we ain't ever going to agree on this situation.
>>>And you damn well know those sanctions could have been lifted at any time if Saddam complied.
Saddam is in the wrong, and we are in the wrong. Did sanctions affect him? Nope. Does he care what happens to his people? Nope. Let's look at the FACTS: This month U.S. policy will kill 4,500 children under the age of 5 in Iraq, according to UN studies, just as it did last month and the month before that, all the way back to 1991. Since the end of the Gulf War, at least hundreds of thousands -- maybe more than 1 million -- Iraqis have died as a direct result of the UN sanctions on Iraq, which are a direct result of U.S. policy.
And this is justifiable in your world is it? Cos it isn't in mine.
>>>I wont because its probably one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever heard...In 96 the Palestinians were offered about 95% of what they said they wanted and turned it down..Now we all know what they really want is the complete annihalation of Israel..Ever notice that Israel only reataliates when a suicide bomber walks into a pizza shop and willingly kill innocent civilians..But I never hear you mention that...
OK 6, let's deal in facts again shall we, rather than what you think the facts are: Israeli attacks on Lebanon in the early 90s were not responded to by the Palestinians, despite killing many civilians. In 1993, these attacks elicited retaliation by Hizbollah, to which Israel responded by invading Lebanon. An agreement was reached to restrict military actions by either side to Israel's "security zone" in Lebanon. Israel has ignored the agreement, attacking elsewhere at will. The day that Prime Minister Shimon Peres took office after the Rabin assassination in November 1995, the New York Times reported that Israeli warplanes attacked targets near Beirut, demonstrating that Peres would maintain Rabin's hard line. So matters continued, occasionally receiving brief notice in the press, but not often, as on March 21 1996, when Israel attacked Muslim villages north of the "security zone" in retaliation for attacks on its occupying army. The standard story in U.S. commentary is that "the accord had largely held until [April 1996], when Hizbollah resumed its attacks" (New York Times). The slightest attention to facts PROVES THIS TO BE A LIE.
The US wants to modify the 1993 agreement to require that all actions against the Israeli occupying forces cease, and that Hizbollah disarm; Lebanon rejected the proposal, insisting on the right of resistance to foreign occupation THAT WAS ENDORSED BY THE UN in 1987 by a vote of 153-2 (U.S. and Israel opposed, Honduras alone abstaining)...this is still unreported in the U.S. Whose ignoring the UN now?
>>>Did you really just compare Saddam to Bush??Ill take a shady business deal any day over gassings,rape,torture,mutilation,and murder any day of the week..Please stop with the ignorant comments...
Ignorance of the facts seems to be your domain. Succesive US administrations have been complicit in terorism and all the acts you outline above.
>>>>Duff,terrorists are going to strike whether or not we invade Iraq,and whether or not we resolve the Palestinian issue..They hate you,me and everyone else in the free world not like them...
I agree that that's the case, but continued inconsistent, short termist tactics by the West has provided the breeding ground for this and war with Iraq will only increase those conditions.
>>>Was it cause you all liked Clinton??Im really starting to believe its your hatred for Bush and Blair that are causing alot of the problem you have with this situation..
Clinton? ****er. Let's go back to Eastern Timor and the party line again: (New York Times): the Clinton Administration has made the calculation that the United States must put its relationship with Indonesia, a mineral-rich nation of more than 200 million people, ahead of its concern over the political fate of East Timor, a tiny impoverished territory of 800,000 people that is seeking independence.
Know what that amounted to? Genocide on a massive scale supported and paid for by the US because it was politically and economically expedient to do so. And we're the good guys are we?
I hate Clinton, he's a lying prick. But then I feel that about most politicians...
>>>I believe the Palestine issue does need to be resolved
Aha, we agree
>>>but only after Hamas,Hezbollah,and Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade find the time to stop murdering innocent people for thier enjoyment..Then maybe then can live side by side in relative peace..
Aha, so once again it's all the Muslims fault and the FACTS above don't count?
>>>And Duff,dont come running when in 3 weeks ,France and all our other Allies hop on for the ride...Once our Allies oil investments are all sorted out,we'll have a whole coalition of the willing knocking on Saddams door...
Mate, the only place I'm running to is the anti-war march next weekend.
Tell you the truth, I'd love the UN - backed by the US, UK and everyone else - to go in and sort Iraq, then sort Israel, and so on, and to institute the sort of consistent, balanced policy the US claims it wants on ALL dictators and terrorists. That would make me the happiest man alive; however you and I both know that that isn't going to happen.
You believe that offing Saddam will lead to a better world and a decrease in terrorism. I believe it will lead to an increase in terrorism, will send out a clear signal to the world that the US and UK ignore the UN at will and are pursuing their own agendas, and send out a signal to the Arab world that it's OK to be a nasty, genocidal dictator PROVIDED you're a friend of the west, a la Israel and China. And THAT is what is creating the conditions that will be the downfall of us all.
Given war is a stone cold cert with or without the UN - cos Lone Ranger Buch and Tonto Blair are going to wade in anyway - let's hope you're right.
PS - So should I send you that plane ticket for the anti-war march next sunday?
__________________
>>>what difference does it make where he got (weapons of mass destruction) from?
I can't believe you wrote that. If I own a gun shop and I sell an AK47 to a man I know is an unbalanced homicidal killer and he then goes onto use that gun, don't you think I'm just a little responsible for that? You know when we kepp selling weapons to dictators across the world 6 - we know they're gonna use 'em. We only get pissed when they decide to use em on us...and if you don't see what's wrong with that picture then we ain't ever going to agree on this situation.
>>>And you damn well know those sanctions could have been lifted at any time if Saddam complied.
Saddam is in the wrong, and we are in the wrong. Did sanctions affect him? Nope. Does he care what happens to his people? Nope. Let's look at the FACTS: This month U.S. policy will kill 4,500 children under the age of 5 in Iraq, according to UN studies, just as it did last month and the month before that, all the way back to 1991. Since the end of the Gulf War, at least hundreds of thousands -- maybe more than 1 million -- Iraqis have died as a direct result of the UN sanctions on Iraq, which are a direct result of U.S. policy.
And this is justifiable in your world is it? Cos it isn't in mine.
>>>I wont because its probably one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever heard...In 96 the Palestinians were offered about 95% of what they said they wanted and turned it down..Now we all know what they really want is the complete annihalation of Israel..Ever notice that Israel only reataliates when a suicide bomber walks into a pizza shop and willingly kill innocent civilians..But I never hear you mention that...
OK 6, let's deal in facts again shall we, rather than what you think the facts are: Israeli attacks on Lebanon in the early 90s were not responded to by the Palestinians, despite killing many civilians. In 1993, these attacks elicited retaliation by Hizbollah, to which Israel responded by invading Lebanon. An agreement was reached to restrict military actions by either side to Israel's "security zone" in Lebanon. Israel has ignored the agreement, attacking elsewhere at will. The day that Prime Minister Shimon Peres took office after the Rabin assassination in November 1995, the New York Times reported that Israeli warplanes attacked targets near Beirut, demonstrating that Peres would maintain Rabin's hard line. So matters continued, occasionally receiving brief notice in the press, but not often, as on March 21 1996, when Israel attacked Muslim villages north of the "security zone" in retaliation for attacks on its occupying army. The standard story in U.S. commentary is that "the accord had largely held until [April 1996], when Hizbollah resumed its attacks" (New York Times). The slightest attention to facts PROVES THIS TO BE A LIE.
The US wants to modify the 1993 agreement to require that all actions against the Israeli occupying forces cease, and that Hizbollah disarm; Lebanon rejected the proposal, insisting on the right of resistance to foreign occupation THAT WAS ENDORSED BY THE UN in 1987 by a vote of 153-2 (U.S. and Israel opposed, Honduras alone abstaining)...this is still unreported in the U.S. Whose ignoring the UN now?
>>>Did you really just compare Saddam to Bush??Ill take a shady business deal any day over gassings,rape,torture,mutilation,and murder any day of the week..Please stop with the ignorant comments...
Ignorance of the facts seems to be your domain. Succesive US administrations have been complicit in terorism and all the acts you outline above.
>>>>Duff,terrorists are going to strike whether or not we invade Iraq,and whether or not we resolve the Palestinian issue..They hate you,me and everyone else in the free world not like them...
I agree that that's the case, but continued inconsistent, short termist tactics by the West has provided the breeding ground for this and war with Iraq will only increase those conditions.
>>>Was it cause you all liked Clinton??Im really starting to believe its your hatred for Bush and Blair that are causing alot of the problem you have with this situation..
Clinton? ****er. Let's go back to Eastern Timor and the party line again: (New York Times): the Clinton Administration has made the calculation that the United States must put its relationship with Indonesia, a mineral-rich nation of more than 200 million people, ahead of its concern over the political fate of East Timor, a tiny impoverished territory of 800,000 people that is seeking independence.
Know what that amounted to? Genocide on a massive scale supported and paid for by the US because it was politically and economically expedient to do so. And we're the good guys are we?
I hate Clinton, he's a lying prick. But then I feel that about most politicians...
>>>I believe the Palestine issue does need to be resolved
Aha, we agree
>>>but only after Hamas,Hezbollah,and Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade find the time to stop murdering innocent people for thier enjoyment..Then maybe then can live side by side in relative peace..
Aha, so once again it's all the Muslims fault and the FACTS above don't count?
>>>And Duff,dont come running when in 3 weeks ,France and all our other Allies hop on for the ride...Once our Allies oil investments are all sorted out,we'll have a whole coalition of the willing knocking on Saddams door...
Mate, the only place I'm running to is the anti-war march next weekend.
Tell you the truth, I'd love the UN - backed by the US, UK and everyone else - to go in and sort Iraq, then sort Israel, and so on, and to institute the sort of consistent, balanced policy the US claims it wants on ALL dictators and terrorists. That would make me the happiest man alive; however you and I both know that that isn't going to happen.
You believe that offing Saddam will lead to a better world and a decrease in terrorism. I believe it will lead to an increase in terrorism, will send out a clear signal to the world that the US and UK ignore the UN at will and are pursuing their own agendas, and send out a signal to the Arab world that it's OK to be a nasty, genocidal dictator PROVIDED you're a friend of the west, a la Israel and China. And THAT is what is creating the conditions that will be the downfall of us all.
Given war is a stone cold cert with or without the UN - cos Lone Ranger Buch and Tonto Blair are going to wade in anyway - let's hope you're right.
PS - So should I send you that plane ticket for the anti-war march next sunday?
__________________
