Paintball: We’ve Got a Problem!

[Baca Loco]

I can confirm the intention to run 7 mandatory Pro events of the configuration mentioned--at least that's what I was told by Chuck--so I'd say that is at least the plan at present.

I would also suggest that making semi-pro a mandatory 6 events--which compels a Euro event--is quite likely beyond the reach of a fair number of the probable semi-pro ranks next season which is slated to be locked at, what was it, 32 teams? What with the prospect of traditional "resources" perhaps becoming harder to come by, particularly for lower level teams. Of course it might also thin the herd a bit and maybe that is a good thing?

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by Missy Q
I think this discussion would progress quicker if people knew what was actually going to happen, so here goes:

The NPPL will run 7 events next year, 5 in the US and 2 in Europe. Sponsorship/vendor space/entries/etc will be the same for every event. I believe one event will be in the UK and one event in Spain. Pro's play all 7. Semi Pro can pick 6, Div One downwards pick 5 (I am not entirely sure about this last bit but it looks likely)
I believe the 2 events are an '06 tester to see whether or not Europe can actually support a proffessional series, what with all the 'apathy' and all...

If the info above isn't true then I'm not the biggest, bounciest African-American goddess you ever saw...

Big is beautiful.
Out.

Missy, we both know the 2006 forray into Europe ain't gonna make no money so I can't really see you using the financial viablility as a criterion for success...you already pretty much know how that's gonna pan out mate.

Missy, we don't need no war, we want co-operation not annihilation..this war won't decide who's right, merely who's left

 

[Missy Q]

Pete,
no-one wants a war, wars cost $$'s. But unfortunately the MS promotors do not wish to work with the NPPL, and there have been considerable efforts to make this happen. The MS think that by sticking together they can stand alone. I expect this is true, and that they will, at least for a while. PP's intentions to run some Euro events have been made clear from the get-go. The MS were contacted as a body and as individuals to be involved. It would not have cost them anything. They could only have earned and earned without the threat of losing thier shirts, an option that is not open to PP.
Unfortunately the mentality is one of xenophobia (of sorts) and fear of the assimmilation that you often talk about. For me, being a partner in a World Series of Paintball, right at the beginning, is more attractive, exciting and stimulative than bashing out the same old events and wondering if they will pay off this time, while desperately scrambling for venues that lack cohesion or consistancy both in quality and location from event to event. I should imagine you feel the same. Having 2 european events, plus one in Australasia and one in Asia, with teams having the luxury of choosing which events to compete and get points in, is an exciting prospect. After all, who wants to go to the same places every year anyway? The Serious teams get what they want. The casual players get a choice set of great locations to play well organised paintball in. Wanna go to Frankfurt again this year, or would you rather go to Bangkok or Ghoa to compete for a change ?- hmmm, tough choice for the hundreds of paintball 'enthusiasts' that make up the majority and simply play because they want to.
As for the financial aspect, it is a far more savvy practice for the Industry sponsor to attend 2 big well organised Euro events than go to 5 and lose money at each. Same exposure to the same audience (better exposure some might argue) and even the opportunity to travel to new markets with the Asian and Australasian legs.
Trust me, the Millennium (and I like those guys and have no particular axe to grind) have to re-think. They have lost the support/respect of many of their teams and thats not great considering whats coming. If i were them (or rather 2 of them as there are only 2 events) I would be getting on board about now...

 

[Missy Q]

4fuxake - I like your scenario and you are 100% right about what the outcome would be. Here is a non-fictional example for you to relate to.

Hyperball 97 - The greatest event the world had ever seen (in '97) and all put on by WDP. They supplied paint at the event and had to sell a million balls or they lost money. No-one really sponsored the event from inside the industry although there were plenty of out-of-industry contributors. The Zap guy (same guy now I think) instead of paying 500 quid to set up a booth and sell paint, decided to park his truck 1/2 mile down the road on a pub carpark 'for free' and sell paint for 4 quid a box less. As a result the teams enjoyed the best event they had ever had, with live bands, DJ's, bungee jumping, tattoo artists, strong booze, sexy chicks and all the frills. WDP sold 4 boxes of paint for thier hard work. Almost every single team (there were 96) drove down the street to pick up the cheaper paint.

So yes, you are entirely right, and you don't even need a made-up story, you can use my real one if you like. European paintballers, and especially the Brits, either have no understanding of the need for allegiance and loyalty to the people who put in the time and SS's to lay on the show they all want to see, or they do realise it and simply have no wish to reward it if said reward means they don't get the cheapest deal going. Of course they still reserve the right to bitch about anything they think was not up to par. The yanks on the other hand, do see the need to do reward the product, to varying degrees.

 

[Robbo]

Missy, let's take the top down approach to this one and for the moment we can both cast aside any allegiances or affiliations we might have tho I only have two anyway, PGI and Nexus.

In any serious international sport (and I hope that’s what we all aspire to here) there are national leagues, area championships and world tournaments.
Paintball, because of its existing stage of development cries out to be carved up like golf; it’s a western world gimme.
It should be split straight down the middle of the Atlantic with Europe on one side and the US on the other.
The Europeans should have one circuit and the US their own with a world series held once a year that should rotate from the US to Europe having different venues each time.

This is hardly a unique blueprint but it is when applied to paintball because to achieve this, we have to drastically rethink the way we go about our business.
Missy, I don’t really care that negotiations broke down, I don’t even care why they broke down, what I care about is, where we are going in 2006 and what damage it will cause if we don’t sort **** out now.
And so, we need a unified European circuit solely for Euro teams to create their own destiny and tournaments, and to this end, we need a unified industry to support us.

The US already has it set up in the NPPL and so is already a runner, the inclusion of the Euro teams over there is just a lip service inclusion and means nothing.
It means nothing Missy, Nexus have played more NPPL’s than any other Euro team and yet I now realize that if I were to have diverted those resources needed to play over there into the training of my team, we would be a whole lot better.
Laurent, Mag and I, have all agreed this last point !!!

Now Missy, yeh you can come over and set up shop and you can go ‘toe to toe’ with the Millennium, but while you’re slugging it out, what the fcuk is really happening???
Do you really think the casualties are gonna be limited to you two?
I don’t think the vast majority of Euro teams could afford (or necessarily want) to go to Bangkok or Goa, no matter how exotic, or how well run they may be.
I dunno, I may be wrong about this last point.
What the Euro player needs is five or six tourney venues that are the same standard as Toulouse or Huntington beach and promoted with the same professionalism.
We need venues like Malaga, Toulouse etc to showcase paintball and its teams and we need a unified circuit to optimise revenue streams to facilitate this.
Missy, we don’t need or want bull**** wars, no matter what the politics dictates mate, it just makes no sense, none at all.
So, it’s self evident what Europe needs, I ain’t talking about what the Millennium need or what the NPPL need, it just remains to be seen as to whether you guys listen up and sort it out rather than allowing other imperatives to interfere with our development.

But you know what Missy, I might as well go and piss in the wind if I’m banking on common sense having an input to all this, after all this is paintball, what could I be thinking.

European teams need a European theatre that culminates in a world series against the US teams, Missy, you already know that is what is going to happen eventually, all we need to do now is establish what route we take and how long it will take.
You choose…..because any deviation from what I have suggested is both unnecessary and costly and we both know it.

 

[Missy Q]

Pete,
you make a lot of sense, and if European paintball were dominated by like-minded people you would have no reason to worry. But it isn't, we both know it isn't, and that, along with the storm-clouds gathering over Europe, is the reason you are frustrated, not merely because of the NPPL's expansion.

Your utopic comparison to Golf is a good analogy for sure, it would be great, but you have to admit it's unlikely. The MS cannot agree amongst themselves, they have different goals, they have different mantra's, they probably all still hate each other, and everyone knows all of the above and so serious financial backing from either inside or outside is going to be MUCH more difficult to get. The NPPL is a proven model. It's driven by a single powerful and uncompromising entity. Its standards are consistently high. To follow through on the golf thing. Whether you are in the US or Europe, you are playing the same rules. Without standardised rules there is no way your World Series can work. The rules area of the Millennium is a joke. Its not even a funny joke, more one of those ones that gets a sigh from the audience, mixed with a bit of heckling. I keep up on this sort of stuff and I could not tell you what the rules will be at thier next event.

As far as what you could have spent your money on instead of the NPPL. If you, Laurent and Magued all agreed this point then perhaps you are all right.
I like a bet, and if I had had the chance to bet on the team that travelled to the NPPL's and competed well there beating the 2 teams that didn't 7 times (or more) out of 10 when they returned to Europe I would have took it. Are you saying your team did not learn enough and progress enough through playing the NPPL to make it worthwhile to pay for? I am suprised by that. In Denver I noticed that ALL the teams got better. Every Pro team was crisper, quicker and harder to beat than in Tampa. Everyones game was up, and I fail to see how this could be the case for european teams not making the trip to play. I am under the impression that these teams will have stayed pretty much the same as they were 2 months ago.

Back on topic. The facts remain Pete. There will be 2 NPPL events in Europe in '06. If the MS had wished, there would be 5, and they would be running them (to NPPL standards). They didn't wish. Its simpler and cheaper to do things half-ass (no disrespect intended to MS staff - I know how hard you work), and in at least 2 out of 5 cases (I'm being kind) thats what MS events have been.
There will also be the MS. Teams will have a choice. Teams will like having a choice. The NPPL will pretty much guarantee a strong pro presence, both by Venue choice and by points accumulation. A strong Pro presence makes a strong event.

While I do get you Pete, all this talk of 'sorting this **** out now' etc really is, as you put it, pissing in the wind. The only people that could possibly 'sort this **** out' have already spoken and agreed to differ. There were opportunities Pete, and they weren't as draconian as you might have thought. But like many players, the MS promotors thing that PP has unlimited access to cash, and maybe they thought some of that should have been headed thier way, and that they wouldn't have had to give anything up to receive it. Kinda like a dole queue for lazy, greedy people (metaphorically speaking). Well PP aint Santa, and it aint Christmas.

The NPPL World Series could happen the way you see it. With NPPL European teams playing NPPL US teams once per year as you described, with one set of rules, and one set of standards. Any other way is crap. Do you agree?

 

[Chicago]

Here's a problem:

Do we want our entire sport controlled by a private enterprise?

In the long run, short a major, inclusive structural change, NPPL will fail, because there will inevitably be more people on the outside than on the inside. To use Robbo's golf example, golf is governed by a non-profit organization. FIFA -> non-profit organization.

NPPL will work fine for purely professional competition. But we're going to need something else for the rest of the sport.

 

[Missy Q]

Pete, after reading your post again it has occurred to me that you are actually advising that the NPPL 'back off' and leave Europe to the MS.

I am very suprised that you would say this. First of all you know the people involved in PP, and that they are mostly European, well, English anyway. That takes care of the 'You US guys stay over there' thing.

You also know that the one thing PP knows how to do is fight. They have been fighting since '93 against people bigger than themselves, and so that takes care of the 'backing off' thing. Never going to happen.

That just leaves the question, 'why would it be in your own interests for PP to stay state-side?'. Maybe I am being Naive, but I wasn't aware of an agenda that would facilitate this change in your ethos, which, the last time I checked, was that you coudn't wait for the NPPL to get there so you would see the kind of shake-up in Europe that everyone enjoyed in the US. The fact that Europe could not support this kind of shake up was MY input.

What's changed? My e-mail is the same as before. No naked pictures of yourself this time though. I don't care how much you 'like the chocolate', some things are best unseen....

 

[Missy Q]

Fifa, non profit, thats a good one!!!

 

[Robbo]

Yo Missy, I agree that the Millennium Hydra at times does resemble the PSP in having far too many heads.
Consensus and unity of direction from the Millennium doesn't come easy and this is exactly why I advised that Laurent should take control and enter into direct negotiations with Ged.

Considerations like rules etc are details as you well know and can be worked on afterwards; it is the macro-concerns we need to be dealing with at the moment.

My point re European teams being in the NPPL needs expanding; Nexus have spent tens of thousands of pounds playing the NPPL, this comes off our bottom line of sponsorship cash that is available to the team.
I invested that money and time because we all believed the mainstream TV bandwagon was just around the corner, and with no disrespect intended to anyone, it feels like we are chasing rainbows.
And so I am left pondering, what the hell do we go there for when it sucks up so much of our resource package?
Our sponsors get behind Nexus because we are one of the top teams in Europe and as you well know, European representation is key with the NPPL appearances merely being icing on a cake but it should never be forgotten that we are sponsored to showcase our sponsors wares in Europe.

The NPPL has since its inception put on a standard of tourneys that is yet unmatched with HB being the industry's flagship event establishing itself as the world's greatest tourney.
It could be I just send Nexus out there merely for my guys to 'enjoy' but Paintball is now a business (even for the teams Missy) and as such, other considerations apart from my player's enjoyment have to be factored in.

As for improvement, of course my team has improved as a direct result of playing in the NPPL, I would be a fool to think otherwise but my point is, if i had directed all that money we paid in flights, hotels, car rentals etc back into the team so as to create a semi professional player base and play just European events, then we would have gotten even better than we are now.
The reason I said our (Europeans) attendance in the NPPL means nothing is because we can never truly compete with the way things stand at the moment, sure we can get the occasional result, I mean we just beat Oakland and XSV in Denver but we couldn't follow it up with a place on the podium because we can't create the depth in performance the Yanks can, and more importantly, no other European team can (apart from the Russkies for obvious reasons).

As a competitor, I don’t like entering a tourney where I know I ain’t gonna win, if I truly want to be one of the top three teams in the world, I have to redirect resources and ironically, it means pulling away from the best league and focusing closer to home with a more extensive and better resourced training program.
This is the point that Laurent, mag and I all agree on.

I 100% agree that the way to go is to have a world series with annual play offs to see who the Guvnor is and any other way is cr@p as you put it but I suspect we ain’t gonna get there by the best possible road.

As for advising you guys to back off from a fight, damn right I am but that’s not the same as having no involvement.
This is why I advocated Laurent heading up the Millennium’s interest to negotiate with Ged.
We both know the stumbling blocks that tripped up the last series of negotiations and I believe these would be removed somewhat if we had Ged and Laurent talking instead of what we had before.
If this were the case, I think we would arrive at a common sense association of leagues with the NPPL providing the umbrella organization under which the Millennium would operate but each tournament being promoted by Laurent with the infrastructure and management being supplied by existing promoters.
Some egos will have to be put on back burners for this to happen.

I think you know full well what I have in the past thought about the NPPL, I have gone on record many times in saying it is the best league in the world and I have not changed my mind one iota, not one.
This ain’t about recognizing past achievements here Missy, it’s all about finding the best route forward and maybes, the best route forward is for the NPPL to take over if co-operation won’t work, all I tried to do was suggest a way of trying to work it out.

Maybe what’s changed in me is that I get tired of needless and ego driven confrontation and what seems like a tweak in mindset for me to enable a common sense association is distorted by others into a full out war.
I was merely trying to set out a road whereby we could get to the place we all want to in the least possible time with the least number of casualties, that is all Missy, that is all.

Missy, you know me well enough; I am gonna say what is on my mind, not because anybody is prodding me or pulling my strings, there is only one person in this industry who could do that and he wouldn’t do that.

I feel a bit like standing on the side of a railway line and looking in both directions and seeing two trains heading for each other on the same line, I can wave my flag and scream all I want but it don’t mean **** really because the reasons for this event were unfolding long before, let’s hope there aren’t too many casualties.