Paintball: We’ve Got a Problem!

[Liz]

Originally posted by Ram
Well Liz, someone should make the change, think that way - if you won't do it, nobody will. So do it!

After 15 bloody years of trying to get that changed!!!
To be honest, things are an awful lot better for girls in the sport (at least the dinosaurs no longer say they won't leave the field if they are shot by a woman - and mean it!) since when I started, and I like to think I had a bit to do with that over the years. But it's time for others to take up the challenge, I'm getting too old and cynical to fight all the battles I want. There are loads of young, energetic females out there who are doing a great job of proving we can compete, it's their turn now.

But we're drifting off topic - quick, someone start talking about the international series in Europe before TFP notice!

 

[Ram]

Sry, i'm not quite familiar with the international arena - for now competed in local tournaments and one open abroad.
i can't get Robbo's main idea - you're saying that because of the hard competition for the status of the best tournament between the various world series, paintball manufacturers will have to choose only one of the series to support, and for now they're going with the NPPL?
Ok, what can you guys in the UK do to stop it?
Please explain to me the whole deal shortly, cause i can't get a full image and therefore understand the whole talk...

 

[Gyroscope]

The NPPL is possibly starting a series in Europe to compete with the Millenium series, which is run as a sort of co-op by a bunch of promoters of relatively equal status, but with unequal quality from event to event.

Robbo is saying that the market in Europe is not robust enough to support 2 series in competition, and that the sponsoring companies will not see it as worthwhile to throw money into both series while they duke it out. Further, the Millenium guys will not be able to operate at a loss for long. Further, diluting the competition between two leagues will be bad for European paintball.

Robbo nominates Laurent Hamet to represent (and lead?) the Millenium promoters, and Sergei to mediate the summit where the NPPL and the Millenium negotiate 2006.

The only problem I see is that it doesn't matter to the NPPL, does it? Why do they need to negotiate when they seem so certain of winning any competition between series? They can draw on money made in the US to support a fight in Europe indefinitely. The Mill has no such cash source. This explains the NPPL's beligerent offers in the past, no?

 

[Liz]

The fact that the NPPL made any offer at all, rather than just moving in and taking over, means that the Millennium promoters must have something to offer them. Maybe it's a foregone conclusion that NPPL would win any battle between the 2, but seeing as the Millenniums already have a decent customer base and the experience of running tournaments in Europe that would mean there would be a long protracted battle which would cost an awful lot to both parties. NPPL would also have to set up a complete Euro based organisation, bearing in mind the months of organisation and planning that has to go into a top international tournament - surely it would be easier (and cheaper?) to just inherit these bodies from the existing set up if that was possible.

 

[jj igotcha]

robbo and liz, i unreservedly respect what you are both saying and i am convinced that you both have uk ballin's best interests at heart. however i dont think its apathy that is our biggest problem but the fact that the main euro tourni organisation choose not to listen to their paying customers on the many things that we think are important. things as unimportant as water at events through to field layouts and venues. i seem to remember an outcry earlier this year when we were informed that we would only be getting 8 games for our money instead of 10 but did they listen, did they f**k cos what option was there if you wanted to play a major event.
to have a series that publishes event details more than a month in advance would be quiet helpful, i fully understand that events of this nature are very hard to arrange and pull off successfully but in general the opinion is that the NPPL is better run than the millenium,
as liz said the little teams will continue to play the most convenient event for them to attend and the bigger teams will go where there sponsors tell them.
will it be such a tragedy if euro ballers are given a genuine choice between a value for money tournament/venue/format as opposed to the like it or lump it attitude currently adopted by the millenium.

 

[Robbo]

JJ, the point here ain't so much whether or not the Euro baller has a choice or not with respect to what he/she does in terms of events they attend.
It has however everything to do with the industry trying to cover both series in the present financial climate and also the effect it has when each series has a split entry in terms of teams attending.

It will end up splitting the resource pool which obviously tourneys feed from but also teams feed from the same well.

The financial strain on both leagues during this period of conflict will be significant and so unnecessary when a viable and commonsense alternative is readily available.

The Millennium have fcuked up lately, they know that but when you look back, they have been pretty minor things, more irritating than anything else.
I been talking to a few of the Millennium guys lately and there seems to be a new resolve with them that's taking form.
It may well be because of the new threat, I don't really care as long as us Euro ballers are the beneficiaries but genuinely think they are trying to get their act together and part of that act is to make sure they don't fcuk up with us lot anymore.

The hard part is going to be to try and convince the NPPL to co-operate instead of trying to assimilate or conquer.

If everybody starts to voice their opinions and as long as the voices are consistent and heading in the same rough direction, I do believe we can all make a difference but looking at the response, it seems as though people don't really care, but hey, what do I know.

 

[Matski]

I don't get the whole panic.... the superior league wins; winners do what losers won't.
Surely, the reality is that the launch of a European Nipple, would not be bad for paintball, only bad for the Millennium Series. As Gyroscope highlighted.

This whole idea of a Millennium series 'customer base' and 'Euro tourney know-how' as competitive weapons or bargaining chips aint worth squat. If theres one thing about paintball and paintballers in Europe; its that they demand exactly whatever is going on in the US. The US scene sets the style and pace for the Euros. Let's face it, when Xball came along in the US, everyone in Europe was saying how we had to get a series going or we would never be able to compete with US teams. You ask your average wannabie Oli Euro paintballer which tournament he would like to attend the most...chances are they will say Huntington Beach.

Any European NPPL, just by brand association alone has immediate positioning alongside the best US tournament series. If they can't attend US events, players in Europe want the next best thing to playing an american event, at the moment all they have is the Mill.........

Fact is NPPL have some great people who know exactly what makes a world class tournament experience. Sponsors, quite evidently also know this. Key euro pro teams will do what their sponsors want.

As Robbo just highlighted, 'people don't really care'. Demand in paintball is a fickle thing and people will go to the best they can get.

 

[Robbo]

Matski, I hadn't realized anybody was panicking nor was I seeking to panic people, I was merely seeking to mobilize people into some sort of action whereby it would forestall any slip-back in the development of Euro paintball.

Commercially we are on a cusp, we need to take advantage of our potential position and not damage any opportunities by splitting industry resources along event lines.
Europe simply cannot sustain two big leagues, it is just not commercially viable, so instead of developing Euroball along Xball (lite) lines and with better venues etc the Millennium will now have to concentrate resources in staying alive because of decreased revenue streams from teams, vendors and sponsors.

The resources that both parties now have at their disposal would be better served (for us Euros) if we could begin to forge our own paintball destiny instead of beginning a civil war.

Whilst any conflict pans out, it will not only be the promoters who will be hurting but also the teams because of the decreased number of opponents they will be facing and let’s face it, the industry ain’t gonna like it too much either.

 

[4fuxake]

The point is summed up short and a sweet to me. We want what the USA has as players but are not prepared to pay for it. We want everything cheap as possible and therefore settle for second best. At the NPPL a player will pay a fair rate for entry and paint knowing he is getting the value for money. He will leave the event with loyalty and repay any sponsor from the NPPL ten fold. In Europe a player will pay his $5K for kit, but ask him for a buck a box on his paint price to pay for a better marshal or a drinks fountain in the safe zone . Nooooooo

The millennium does a great job on the funds they get, and if it was not for the contribution of the sponsors for little in return it would probably be a lot less. I do not think the NPPL in Europe could be a patch on the US one as European players would not help finance it to the same proportion. Both in numbers contributing and the amount contributed.

Scenario at a millennium: One brand is selling a case of paintballs for $50 and another brand was $52 and another $55. The $50 guy, you only ever see at the Millennium, he sponsors five lowly teams and will give you 3 free box’s if you buy 20 cases. The $52 a case guy sponsors the league in your local region, is a platinum sponsor at Millennium and helps most local Fields sponsor a walk on day. $55 guy paid for the Players party after the millennium, sponsors the national league, provides Marshal Attire for the Millennium and paid for a training day for the marshals prior to the event. I would state my business that almost every team that is buying paint would buy the $50 paint without a thought.

My view is if there are two events, they will kill each other and we will have none..... We do not have the numbers, cash and fanaticism...

 

[Missy Q]

I think this discussion would progress quicker if people knew what was actually going to happen, so here goes:

The NPPL will run 7 events next year, 5 in the US and 2 in Europe. Sponsorship/vendor space/entries/etc will be the same for every event. I believe one event will be in the UK and one event in Spain. Pro's play all 7. Semi Pro can pick 6, Div One downwards pick 5 (I am not entirely sure about this last bit but it looks likely)
I believe the 2 events are an '06 tester to see whether or not Europe can actually support a proffessional series, what with all the 'apathy' and all...

If the info above isn't true then I'm not the biggest, bounciest African-American goddess you ever saw...

Big is beautiful.
Out.