NPPL Huntington Beach: Who's going?

[Magued]

Oh I didnt realize...

That the players is going to get paid when playing the NXL.
I totally understand that if NXL is paying them they shouldnt play elsewhere!

Wonder how much the salery is?

Magued

 

[Baca Loco]

While I actually agree with Chris's basic premise in this instance there are other issues during this transitional period complicating the situation. Here's a couple. . .
1--non-NXL X-Ball looks to me like it's doing precisely the same sort of undercutting of the future 'product' that one might argue NXL teams playin' other events could do.
2--the franchisees have paid a stake to be in the game with all it's attendant possibilities and future rewards. They have not bought teams or players. The league can only control where players play if individual team owners are willing to abide by NXL restrictions.
3--separating the NXL product is problematic while it remains part of the PSP road show. Regardless of how its characterized it's still gonna be compared to PSP divisional X-Ball and PSP 10-man 'cus they're all gonna be played together.

 

[raehl]

Well, first, I want to be clear, I don't know if NXL players are being paid a salary or not - but they're at least being paid in the sense that when I play paintball, I have to pay entry and buy paint and pay hotel and airfare and these guys definitely don't - so they are getting paid at a minimum in the sense that they get to do something they like to do for free which the rest of ushave to pay lotsof good money for.

Baca:

1- I think the opposite, you have to start getting people interested in the format and people playing the format. NXL can't be successful if they tell their advertisers that it's only played by 200 people. The format is free, watching the best is what is sold.

2- The teams have to live up to the league's requirements, that's part of the franchisee's contract. In that sense, they HAVE bought the teams - a McD's franchise owner does not get to also own a burger king. The players also have requirements to play - if they don't agree to the requirements, they don't get to play, so they've also been "bought" (better said: Contracted) in that sense. Every player made their own decision as to whether the NXL restrictions were worth it.

3- I agree here, but I think you hit it when you mentioned "transitional". NXL isn't to the point where it can run on it's own yet, so it needs to ride along with PSP for a while until it can survive on it's own. Think of PSP events as a way to make sure a good chunk of interested spectators happen to be at the same location.


- Chris

 

[Wadidiz]

Originally posted by raehl
but you've got zero economic reasons to allow players to play elsewhere, and those are really the only reasons that count. - Chris

I said a couple of posts back:
___________________________
Since you're so keen on sponsorship, then what is the name of the game there? Obviously EXPOSURE and a lot of it. Therefore it made total sense for the 'Men to both play Xball AND play whatever NPPLs or anything else they can. More opportunity for peeps to see the superstars sporting their Dye duds, etc.
__________________________

That's not what I would call "zero economic reasons".

But you're right, the market dictates with a strong hand. But I can tell you that a negotiated deal that is unreasonable almost always come back to bite the ass of the negotiator that thought he "won". The question is whether or not the team side of this deal really liked the exclusivity clause or not. TJ implies that many didn't.

I still haven't seen any reason, under today's circumstances, to enforce exclusivity. Only hypotheticals about when peeps will pay to watch PB.

Steve

 

[raehl]

Exposure isn't an economic reason - it's an economic UNreason. The NXL teams are not designed to be valuable because the products they use are seen by lots of people. They're designed to be valuable because people might pay to see the teams play. You're trying to apply the 'old' model to a new league whose entire purpose is NOT to use the old model.

In the NEW model, free exposure is BAD. Revenue creating exposure is the goal.

No, it probably doesn't matter too much right now, but it WILL (hopefully) matter in the future, and at that point NXL players will have to only play NXL. The NXL is doing the right thing by laying out the standards up front instead of putting themselves in the position of having to change the standards later. Whenever the NXL does it, the players are still going to complain, so might as well get it out of the way now.


- Chris

 

[TJ 2]

Gotta say I'm down with Raehl here.

It's easy to ascribe base motives to PSP given tha current climate, and the NXL-only rule is gonna be painful for a lot of X-Ballers and non-X-Ballers alike, but maybe that's tha sacrifice that's got to be made to take things to the next level.

I think that separating the upper echelons needs doing, and that tha NPPL/PSP acrimony is clouding the waters somewhat. Had tha leagues not split, I think the majority of forward thinking ballers would have welcomed this decision.

I got my fireproof suit on so bring on tha flamethrowers...

 

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by raehl
1--Well, first, I want to be clear, I don't know if NXL players are being paid a salary or not - but they're at least being paid in the sense that when I play paintball, I have to pay entry and buy paint and pay hotel and airfare and these guys definitely don't - so they are getting paid at a minimum in the sense that they get to do something they like to do for free which the rest of ushave to pay lotsof good money for.

Baca:

2--1- I think the opposite, you have to start getting people interested in the format and people playing the format. NXL can't be successful if they tell their advertisers that it's only played by 200 people. The format is free, watching the best is what is sold.

3--2- Every player made their own decision as to whether the NXL restrictions were worth it.

4--3- I agree here, but I think you hit it when you mentioned "transitional". NXL isn't to the point where it can run on it's own yet, so it needs to ride along with PSP for a while until it can survive on it's own. Think of PSP events as a way to make sure a good chunk of interested spectators happen to be at the same location.

5--Whenever the NXL does it, the players are still going to complain, so might as well get it out of the way now.

- Chris

Let me say first, I'm plainly not opposed to the concept but am having a difficult time seeing a 'grand plan' here as of yet. Doesn't mean there isn't one. . .

1--that however isn't exclusive to NXL players. Lots of players get a free ride. Not really the same thing.
2--the players are already interested but you're no more gonna sell the NXL on 2000 tourney players watching X-Ball than on 200 players playing it.
3--I think you're jumping the gun on that one. Some have but the proof will be in the pudding. The last thing the league could withstand is wholesale player defections or vocal unrest.
4--not if the PSP continues to run events the way they have in the past. The traveling road seems to be little more than a stop gap. Obviously what the NXL needs to do is build value into their product and they aren't going to do it any time soon with a few hundred folks wandering around a pball 3-ring circus.
5--not if they're "actually" getting paid.

Maestro
I agree with the principle but the question is when. As in pball, timing is everything. Should the NXL work out in the future as most of us hope will NY Xtreme's roster be the same as the one that plays the circuit this year? Probably not. Will it matter? Probably not.
What I'm trying to get at is it seems to me perhaps premature given the other things that are currently being done--or not done--as the case may be. As usual, JMHO.

 

[raehl]

1-And players already getting a free ride have to agree to not play for other teams, not use a competitor's product (at least not where anyone is going to see it), and not play certain leagues (there are paint sponsorships out there that don't let you play leagues sponsorred by other paint sponsors without permission from the sponsor, for example.) Hell, a few months ago, everyone was assuming sponsors would make their teams play the national league they were sponsoring and didn't have a problem with it then...

2-No, but you've got to start somewhere. At least by running alongside, you cut the costs of running the NXL events, and you still get some money by selling product to the 2k players there that you wouldn't get if you had a standalone event without anyone there at all.

3-OK, every player CAN make. I don't really think it matters for the NXL, because players are a dime a dozen.

4-I think you've got to start somewhere. Let the NXL have a season or two of putting the format right in front of the top level of players, getting them striving to play that format, getting them used to the format, then move on to running the events separately.

5- Payment will never stop complaining, esp. not in this sport.


- Chris

 

[shamu]

OK, I can accept that PSP wants the NXL players to be exclusive to Xball. It does make some business sense.

But here's when I'll believe it's all about delivering the best product:

- when I start seeing ads promoting Xball somewhere other than a paintball magazine, and
- when I see events at a location other than a cow pasture or existing paintball field.

I really hope they do it right and promote Xball because I think it does have a good chance of improving the sports visibility with the general public. IF it's promoted to the general public.

 

[knobbs]

Sorry, I call bull**** on this one.

The NXL has no right to tell the players where they can and cannot play until they compensate the players in some way. The player's SPONSORS, however, have every right to do so. The NXL gives nothing to the sponsors or the players. The sponsors give $250K to the NXL and then, apparently, give up control of thier team.

Chris, as you say, the players would not be able to "get a million dollars together and play wherever they want." This is a LEAGUE-enforced rule, not a sponsor, so the player that did get that money would have ZERO control over where they play other than the NXL.

Does it make sense for the sponsors to do so and for the league? Yes. The first way to get people interested is to make the players an elite group with a mystique that will draw others to watch them. Should they be given the option to allow thier players to play elsewhere? I believe so.

My own thoughts? I think it is a good idea to make the NXL players an elite group, but I really did want to see Dynasty get some competition in the S7.

And yes, I think X-ball is the future.