New 15bps ramping rule

[Russell Smith]

First of all the rule is not for the PA league only, it will be adopted by all leagues who use the PA rulebook.
I have been in regular talks with the PSP and the NPPL about our proposed rule change because I think it is very important
that we all work together and they also agree we must all do something to stop the cheats.
Because of the determination of the PA in finding a solution to some of the problems in paintball, we tried and discussed lots of options and we came up with this possible rule change that may work.
it would be wrong to have such a radical change without informing other leagues to see if they thought it may be used by themselves.
The PSP and the NPPL have shown great interest in what we proposed and indeed we are going over to a meeting with the PSP and NPPL soon to further discuss common rules.
The device that we have can count the number of shots per second and has software that can tell if it is being shot by the owner or using a mode.
The unit is small enough to be used by the refs on field and is available now (subject to patent details).
This rule change can be policed and I suspect it will not be the only rule change that paintball will adopt worldwide this year.


Russ

 

[hyper1]

There is alot of disscusion regarding this subject going on stateside too, with the NXL, PSP, & CFOA each adopting some form of this rule. I feel there is alot of pro's & con's to be considered. What bothers me is that ramping/cheater boards never seemed to be a problem when only a few top teams could get them, but now when it is available to every average Joe playing...oh no, we got a problem!

 

[Hatts]

It was always an issue. As soon as the very first gun with "hidden" modes was made it effectively became an issue.

The problem was no one knew what to do about it. When Russ and I were told about this wonderful little gizmo it suddenly opened up an option to do something about it. So we did. Or at least we're trying.

The magic box can tell if a gun goes into a ramping mode, so whether the PSP, NPPL, PA or any other series finally decide to allow ramping or any other assisted modes of fire or not this also gives us the ability to detect it rather than the present system of "oooh... that sounds a bit funny... I better pull it and see if I can make it do the same thing"

 

[Hatts]

Originally posted by RoryM
Before we get to deep into this, I am sure that someone has checked out the legallity of this with the Home Office, but by doing so, would this make the HO sit up and take an interest in what we are doing and use it as part of the usual UK anti-gun culture to turn round and beat us with the stick they have so long searched for?

Just playign devils advocate to this debate, but this is like formula 1 giving in to all the traction/launch control stuff they banned because they could not catch it. But if we say to the HO we can't obey the law with our markers, what will they do?


Discuss!

The HO is not looking for any reason to "beat" us with any stick. They are very pleased with the way paintball polices itself in the UK, pretty much entirely due to the efforts of Mr. Bull.

We are not saying to the home office that we can not obey the law we are saying that with developments in technology we are revising our own system of policing paintball guns so that we can continue to do so effectively before they get to a stage where they are breaking the law.

The home office does not want to look at paintball and as long as the UKPSF keeps things under control then there is no need for them to look.

 

[Steve Hancock]

Surely the only options for a poll at the moment are:

1. Remain with the current rules
2. Adopt the new rule
3. Propose an alternative

But as no alternative has been suggested, perhaps.

In the absence of any other alternative do you...

1. agree that the new rule is necesary, the current situation is unaceptable.
2. Not sure
3. disagree with the new rule, we are better off as we are.

 

[Bolter]

I dont like it, but see it as the only option against cheating guns. I personally can shoot as fast if not faster than 15 all the time. I have worked very hard on that skill and am a bit peeved that Joe Bloggs can now (if the rule goes through) shoot at the same speed as me without trying too hard.

I say, allow some bounce, but not silly bounce, and do away with ramping, but keep the 15bps max. But that may be hard to enforce and therefore Russ's proposal is the only real solution.

 

[stongle]

Originally posted by Bolter
I dont like it, but see it as the only option against cheating guns. I personally can shoot as fast if not faster than 15 all the time. I have worked very hard on that skill and am a bit peeved that Joe Bloggs can now (if the rule goes through) shoot at the same speed as me without trying too hard.

I say, allow some bounce, but not silly bounce, and do away with ramping, but keep the 15bps max. But that may be hard to enforce and therefore Russ's proposal is the only real solution.

Bad Bolter! When I told fibs as a youngster (pre Childline days), my mummy would wash my mouth out with soap and water.

15 BPS on a "legal" Mag?

 

[Hatts]

Originally posted by Bolter
I have worked very hard on that skill and am a bit peeved that Joe Bloggs can now (if the rule goes through) shoot at the same speed as me without trying too hard.

Bolter,

after speaking with Messr's Sosta and Bonich the other day I am inclined to believe that you may be one of the few and rare individuals who can shoot in excess of 15bps.

The point we're making here is that any Joe Bloggs can already shoot at the same speed as you without trying too hard and realistically the ref's have a got a snowballs chance in hell of catching them and proving it.

It really doesn't matter whether the rule goes through or not. It's happening. All the rule will do is acknowledge that it's happening and stop us wasting time, effort and resources on trying to catch phantoms.

I was for a long time an ardent opponent of assisted modes of fire and 11bps is about my best ever, maybe 12 if I drink enough caffeine. The more I've thought about this though, the more I've come to accept that it's really just another evoltion of the game, same as pump to semi, mech to electro.... I wonder what happened to all those guys who spent time working on their "slam-fire" technique? Should we have stopped the development of the semi because they could fire a pump gun faster than Joe Bloggs?

I think it's wrong that any set of rules should restrict development and new ideas.

 

[ANDY-501]

Originally posted by Hatts
I think it's wrong that any set of rules should restrict development and new ideas.

But surely by restricting all guns at tournament level to 15 bps it will slow the advancement of R&D on loaders and guns by manufacturers who will be unwilling to pump more money into something they can easily achieve with current products ?

ANDY.

 

[Hatts]

Andy,

At present even the very best loaders are still in part dependent on gravity and agitation. The HALO's and Egg's are already feeding about as fast as the paintball itself is capable of handling. If you're looking things like the Q-loader this can allegedly already feed in excess of 30bps.

Capping the ROF at 15 is just above what the majority of ballers can fire unassisted. Getting a gun to fire fast is no challenge at all for the designers. They've all done it already. The guns can already cycle in excess of 30bps but you'll never get a paintball to match it.

In addition we do have a responsibility to counterbalance what we can do with what we should do. There are still safety issues to consider in every decision we make and I for one wouldn't fancy going up against 30bps

The designers and developers have already given us equpment that is capable of running way faster than we can practically use because we're limited by the fragility of the paintball itself. The real clever bit is getting the load systems to feed at high rates more consistently.