Never heard anything so Ridiculous in my life!

[L J]

we SHOULD NOT move those brave soldiers graves...


that is the most wrong thing we could ever do!!

at least some Frenchy politicians (maybe lieing) said that this was a total shock and cant believe they even suggested moving the soliders as they saved the Frenchies country on 2 occasions. the only war the frenchies have helped US in is the dam 1799 business with all the colonies...and that was against the UK...dam the french...dam them to hell...they have no conscience clearly

i was pretty dam shocked and pissed off with them when i saw the report

 

[Mark790.06]

Originally posted by sjt19
If that is the meaning of 'flawless' then i would hate to witness a campaign riddled with average planning and poor tactics.....

Tactics and military planning are separate entities from situations fratricide and civilian casualties. The coalition did not plan to kill themselves or devise tactics for the killing of civilians, the British media's reporting of the war to the contrary.

Originally posted by sjt19
You say that 'you' just toppled a country in 3 weeks...

If you re-read his post, I think you'll find he said "WE"

Originally posted by sjt19
With all the technology about nowadays...hmm.....how about 0!!!

It's the precision of today's weapons made possible by technology that makes instances of fratricide so lethal. Combine that with our ability to minimize casualties inflicted by the enemy and you have a fratricide rate that looks disproportional when you get to the final tally.

Originally posted by sjt19
Is that not why the soldiers put years into training....? to eliminate mistakes???

Any soldier will tell you that the complete elimination of mistakes in combat is an unrealistic goal, but one they faithfully strive for regardless.

Originally posted by sjt19
So the economic benefits didnt affect his decisions at all then??

And those are? Our congress is allocating 75-80 billion dollars for this little shin-dig, or about 25-30 billion dollars MORE than the French oil contract they had with Saddam, if you have any ideas on how to turn a profit on this I'm sure they'll want to hear it.

Originally posted by IanC
I don't condone the actions of the coalition as I feel the pretence of liberating the Iraqi people was just spin to cover the liberation of the iraqi oil wells! I could be misjudging our leaders here, and if I tryly am then I apologise, however I don't believe that all those billions of dollars were spent waging a war for no profit, do you?

You were do so well up until this point. Liberating the Iraqi people was incidental to the disarming of Saddam. There was no spin. As for the profit margins of spending 80 billion dollars for a war that makes us the scorn of Europe, Canada, Mexico, France, Russia, Germany, and 80% of the middle-East, I'd like to hear about it.

Originally posted by headrock6
Latest polls ive seen has a 1/3 of the French poulation hoping the coalition loses the war..

Interestingly that's the same percentage that votes socialist in France, go figure.

 

[Walker (Nitro)]

Originally posted by headrock6
We just toppled a country in 3 weeks

WHO did?

 

[duffistuta]

Christ, listen to yourselves

Americans this, French that, Arabs this...all this ascribing one viewpoint to groups millions strong is crass, stupid and wrong. All it does is lead to a climate of prejudice, fear and intolerance that is played upon by fundamentalist leaders the world over, from Sharon to Arafat, Bush to Hussein.

And the 'the anti-war brigade thinks X' and 'the Pro war brigade thinks Y' is equally inane - there are left and right wing, rich and poor, arab and christian, dwarves, lesbians and satanists on both sides of the argument. These people do not have one reason to be for or against, their rationales are varied, so stop with the blanket terms.

And as for the '1/3 of French want the coalition to lose/therefore that's the socialist 1/3rd' well, that's just pathetic. A recent US poll revealed that, thanks to months of spin and US politicians continuously using the words 'Saddam' and '9/11' together, 56% of Americans currently believe that Saddam HusSein was directly responsible for 9/11. So should we then infer from that that 56% of Americans are morons?

 

[sjt19]

Christ, listen to yourselves

Originally posted by duffistuta
should we then infer from that that 56% of Americans are morons?

Only 56%??! They are getting smarter as a nation then.......

 

[Buddha 3]

Originally posted by headrock6

Just mosey on down to your local library and get a book on the fall of France in 1940..Mix that in with a brilliant Nazi war plan and you have the fall of France in a matter of weeks..The French and Brits were still using WW1 tactics while the German panzer divisions were steam rolling towards the English Channel

I'm sure that the German's blatant disregard of the neutrality of countries they were not at war with had noting to do with it....

 

[goose]

I tried to stay out, however...

sjt19 - I don't knwo who you are, so if I make any false statements in regards to you, please accept my apologies.

From what I read - I gather you are one of the younger members of our sport, and have neither been in the military.

ANYONE who goes into military service knows that he/she could end up dead - either in a war - or during TRAINING - it is accepted. The same way that firemen and police officers know that they could die in the performance of their duties.

As far as civilian casualties - ask your grandparents about civilian cassualties in London during WWII. Hell next week in Germany, see if you can find and old German person and ask them what it is like to stand under a rain of bombs. I would personally much rather be in the middle of Baghdad right now, than ANY German city in 1944-45.

The coalition forces have done everything possible to avoid both friendly and civilian casualties, I don't see anywhere in your posts do you mention the Iraqis who shot their own people who where trying to flee Basra. nor do you mention the fact that Saddam Hussein has killed more Iraqi then the coalition forces ever will.

I am not a fan of war - but sooner or later CRIMINALS need to be stopped. If Mr. Hussein had been allowed to stay in power for a few more years - how many more innocent Iraqis would be dead? I would guess a lot more than the coalition have killed. Also, if he where to die (not be removed) and his son Uday where to take over... here is someone who has learned from his Daddy and become even worse.

The follwing are quotes from the New York Times in regards to the way this war was fought.

In the 1991 Persian Gulf war, only one combat aircraft in five could drop a bomb on a target sighted by a laser; today they all can, Mr. Cheney said.

Only 9 percent of the weapons dropped in the 1991 war were precision-guided; for this war, air combat officials based in Saudi Arabia said today that a total of 15,000 precision-guided munitions and 7,500 unguided bombs had been dropped thus far. When added to more than 750 cruise missiles, the percentage of precision munitions used in the war is 68 percent.

This is hardly indescriminant carpet bombing...

As it turns out, the invasion of Iraq was remarkably different from the first gulf war, in which a much larger ground force was used after a 43-day bombardment to push Iraqi invaders back from Kuwait. In that war, United States casualties included 148 killed in combat, 151 killed outside of combat and 467 wounded.

So far in this war, the Pentagon said today, the total American losses have included 102 dead, 11 missing and 7 prisoners of war, with the British forces listing 30 killed.

You do the math - in the first Gulf war there where 299 U.S. soldiers killed - whereas to date the total is 109.

Was the planning 100% perfect - and by this I mean no casualities on the coalition side - no, don't think it will ever be. Was it flawless - pretty much, there have been no FLAWS in the planning that have cost the coalition heavy losses or hindered them in accomplishing their goals to-date.

Is the loss of life a good thing? - NO - is the war a good thing? I don't know if war is ever good - are there other motivating factors behind the war itself - PROBABLY... HOWEVER the people who will benefit the most in the long run are the Iraqi people themselves - sure Exxon may move in and drill oil - but a greater part of the profits will be going the Iraqi people and not into building palace after palace - or monument after monument. The money will go to feeding the people not feeding some crazy dictators ego.

If you want to mourn innocent victims - be my guest - I will most certainly join you... but at the same time we must remember to mourn the 100,000 Iraqis used for chemical weapons testing in the late 80's early 90's....

The only opinion that holds the most credibility (with me) in the whole matter fo this war is not and politician - or heaven forbid any Hollywood actor or singer. It is the Iraqi exiles who still have family in harms way - I have yet to hear any member of this group say anything negative. They know their sisters/brothers/cousins whatever could end up dead - but they accept this and just hope for Hussein to be gone - for the GOOD of the Iraqi people.


goose

 

[sjt19]

I tried to stay out, however...

Originally posted by goose
sjt19 - I don't knwo who you are, so if I make any false statements in regards to you, please accept my apologies.

From what I read - I gather you are one of the younger members of our sport, and have neither been in the military.

The coalition forces have done everything possible to avoid both friendly and civilian casualties, I don't see anywhere in your posts do you mention the Iraqis who shot their own people who where trying to flee Basra. nor do you mention the fact that Saddam Hussein has killed more Iraqi then the coalition forces ever will.

You are right that i am young, and have never been in the military.

I couldnt agree with you more, and this is Something that i posted in a thread about the hotel bombs-->

"Civilian casulties are nothing compared with the number of people that Saddam's regime has massacred over the last god knows how many years"

Originally posted by goose
I am not a fan of war - but sooner or later CRIMINALS need to be stopped. If Mr. Hussein had been allowed to stay in power for a few more years - how many more innocent Iraqis would be dead? I would guess a lot more than the coalition have killed. Also, if he where to die (not be removed) and his son Uday where to take over... here is someone who has learned from his Daddy and become even worse.
If you want to mourn innocent victims - be my guest - I will most certainly join you... but at the same time we must remember to mourn the 100,000 Iraqis used for chemical weapons testing in the late 80's early 90's....

Again i agree with you, and again i will point you to something that i wrote yesterday:

"i happen to believe that what is happening with regard to Iraq should never have been allowed to get this far, i think that it was a gross mistake of the coalition forces to leave Saddam in power following the last conflict all those years ago. What they are doing now is in my opinion over 10 years to late, and has cost the lives of millions of innocent Iraqi people."

Sam

 

[goose]

Sammy - more than agree with your statement about whether or not he should have been removed 12 years ago - but one thing we must remember, back then the U.N. mandate was to remove the Iraqis from Kuwait - not topple Saddam.

The coalition back then did what they where asked, nothing more - nothing less.

I also get a little touchy when the world starts crying about casualties - on both sides - but conveniently forget the hundreds of thousands before. War is hell - and I wish it could be avoided - but the whole "anti war" protests are just starting to piss me off.

Don't mean to lump you into that group - please accept my apologies - but please don't think that what is being done down there is anything but "impressive". The number of things that could go wrong - and very few things have... I hate to think of what it would be like if Pedro where in charge .


goose

P.S. Find me in Germany and we can discuss this further over a coke - 'cus i don't think you are old enough to drink beers yet

 

[sjt19]

You only had to see the looks on the faces of ordinary Iraqi's on the news to see how much removing Saddam's regime means to them. This surely should stop all the anti war protests in their tracks. Watching people dance for joy as tanks rolled in to Baghdad was a sight i have never seen before, and the emotion of those people was clear for all to see. I am in no doubt that war was the right way to go, and i am pleased for the people of Iraq who are now free.

Originally posted by goose
Sammy -

Aah Goosey...

Originally posted by goose
i hate to think of what it would be like if Pedro where in charge .

Well...the desert would have been covered in straw....the soldiers would all have food poisoning as the food would have been undercooked....and they would have rolled into Baghdad 6 hours late!

Originally posted by goose
P.S. Find me in Germany and we can discuss this further over a coke - 'cus i don't think you are old enough to drink beers yet

I had a chat with you in Portugal i think on the table outside the smartparts stand, i was with Wayne and you guys were helping me try to find out how to turn my Race Cocker on!!!!! Oh, and i may not be old enough to drive the rental car, but i am old enough to sample the local alcoholic beverages.....

Sam