Name that Skill!

[Chicago]

Originally posted by Furby

Until such time as a non-political, non-biased governing body is set in place to govern every aspect of the game, regardless of whatever league is putting on events, then it isn't a sport.

Poppycock.

Most sports have THOUSANDS of sanctioning bodies, from the Pro league to the College league to 50 state high school assoications to thousands of local peewee leagues, and that's just in this country.

Yes, the way the sport is played is generally the same, but little league baseball is different from high school baseball which is different from college baseball which is different from minor and even major league baseball.

Football (either variety) and basketball are even played with varying numbers of players. (Yeah, court basketball is 5 on 5, but there's plenty of 3-on-3 treet tournaments out there.) Olympic and NBA basketball also have fundamental differences.

How about volleyball? 2 people on sand or 6 people on a court? Drinking or no drinking?

Is Track and Field one sport or 20?

The notion that a sport has to played the same everywhere to qualify as a sport is just WRONG.

 

[Baca Loco]

Furby, Furby, Furby

Are you sitting? If you're a tournament paintball player I want to break this to you as gently as possible. PAINTBALL IS NOT A SPORT.

That's how the View in issue 194 begins. So I've already been there, said that. Though I may have drawn a slightly different final conclusion--

As to the rest of your attempted threadjack . . .
Consistency of rules has to do with enforcement, not variations of a type. You can play center flag or two flag or whatever without compromising the game. What you can't do is either have rules that can't be enforced, whatever they might be, or have rules that are so subjective there is little hope in hell of enforcing them with any consistency.

As for your speculations on the future we shall see.

As to the fast shooting skill, they can't but thank you kindly for the compliment. But if it makes y'all feel better I will gladly agree that individuals who work at it can learn to shoot pball guns faster than the peeps who don't. However, that factoid doesn't alter my argument about fast shooting as it relates to the current competitive environment.

 

[Furby]

Originally posted by Furby


Ya know, the assumption that paintball is a sport is a false one.

There, I said it.

We happen to agree on that point, Paul...

As for the rest, I think we're down to semantics in supporting our various views.

I mean, Effective Enforcement vs. consistent rules really are the same thing, if you get right down to it. I suppose the point I was trying to make was that the allowance of enhanced modes vs. True Semi makes for two very different games. It's my assertion that the addition or subtraction of ramping can change the game at its' very base.

I'm ashamed to admit that here lately I've been using Mode 3 on my Angels (PSP Compliant Ramping), and it's made a fundamental difference in how I play, and I've noticed that it's made the same difference in how other local teams play as well. Rather than concentrating on raping the trigger to suppress movement, I'm more able to concentrate on movement, because even my nasty slinking front players are able throw up walls of paint and put up their own suppression AND even assist my old, slow self. Make no mistake, it's quite a bit different than one or two guys providing the suppression. Changes the tactical enviroment significantly.

Whether or not this is a good thing will bear out in time, and as for myself I'll continue to advocate for True Semi, mainly because I'd prefer to make the trigger pulls for myself, rather than have my guns do it for me. I don't like the loss of control that goes hand in hand with ramping, and at some point someone will get hurt due to that loss of control, and then the new era of government interference with our extreme hobby/sport/way of life will begin. And I assure you, dear bovine, nobody will like that.

 

[JoseDominguez]

Any "skill" which can be practiced on a play station 2 is absolutely nothing to shout about.

I can see the sports pages now.

Tiger Woods takes open with hole in one.

Beckham picks up a triple.

Knock out shock in heavyweight title fight.

Lasoya waggles fingers really fast.


It's hard enough convincing the general public that what we play is anything like a sport without the "I can rip 25 shots a second" crap. Not bothered if it's a skill, I just don't want to hear about it. At least ramping has stopped some of the most boring after-match conversations on earth.

"I was laying it down on the break, emptied three pots by the time they were even in their primaries"
"Great, did you hit anyone?"
"Yes"
"Anyone on the other team?"

 

[Skeet]

Originally posted by JoseDominguez
.
Lasoya waggles fingers really fast.


"I was laying it down on the break, emptied three pots by the time they were even in their primaries"
"Great, did you hit anyone?"
"Yes"
"Anyone on the other team?"

Classic example, quoted for truth

 

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by Furby
We happen to agree on that point, Paul...

1--As for the rest, I think we're down to semantics in supporting our various views.

2--I mean, Effective Enforcement vs. consistent rules really are the same thing, if you get right down to it.

3--I suppose the point I was trying to make was that the allowance of enhanced modes vs. True Semi makes for two very different games. It's my assertion that the addition or subtraction of ramping can change the game at its' very base.

I'm ashamed to admit that here lately I've been using Mode 3 on my Angels (PSP Compliant Ramping), and it's made a fundamental difference in how I play, and I've noticed that it's made the same difference in how other local teams play as well. Rather than concentrating on raping the trigger to suppress movement, I'm more able to concentrate on movement, because even my nasty slinking front players are able throw up walls of paint and put up their own suppression AND even assist my old, slow self.
4--Make no mistake, it's quite a bit different than one or two guys providing the suppression. Changes the tactical enviroment significantly.

Whether or not this is a good thing will bear out in time, and as for myself I'll continue to advocate for True Semi, mainly because

5--I'd prefer to make the trigger pulls for myself, rather than have my guns do it for me. I don't like the loss of control that goes hand in hand with ramping, and at some point someone will get hurt due to that loss of control, and then the new era of government interference with our extreme hobby/sport/way of life will begin. And I assure you, dear bovine, nobody will like that.

1--you all are playing word games I'm not. You may not like my argument but nobody yet has put a dent in it.

2--in your original post you equated inconsistency with a lack of a single authorizing, over-seeing authority, not to unenforceable rules and that was the part I was responding to.

3--it might very well but please notice you have been reduced to claiming some phantom True semi-auto so my argument has already impacted how you look at the issue. So, please tell me when you think was the last time we had True semi auto? (It hasn't been anytime recently. Before the introduction of the first R/T perhaps?)

4--as I recall the arguments of the past opposed to excessive rates of fire insisted that with too much paint in the air no one would ever be able to move and the game would stagnate. Yet, you're telling me easy high ROF are enabling your whole team. So which is it?

5--what was the last gun of yours that didn't offer a helping hand?

Safety arguments are another kettle of fish altogether and I will gladly agree that there are safety issues in paintball.

 

[Collier]

At the risk of repeating what's been said already, I DO feel like we've lost a skill going to ramping, I can't believe that people believe otherwise.
I'm not going to bother 'grading' the skill and why should I? That's not the question at hand.
Take any div 1 or 2 team and count the number of 'low level' markers, I'm positive that neither team will be at a disadvantage with regard to firepower.
Take 2 identical players, 1 can shoot a true 15 bps the other can achieve 7 bps, who get's on your team?
1. Of course shooting fast is a skill!
2. It's not just the shooting fast part as Mark has said, it's what you do with it, running & gunnin' etc
3. Bring back semi!

 

[Sherman]

Originally posted by Collier

Take 2 identical players, 1 can shoot a true 15 bps the other can achieve 7 bps, who get's on your team?

I'd choose the player who actually hits what he's aiming at. In this case if they really are 100% identical, higher ROF is an advantage.

The real skill is to hit with your first shots, after that it doesn't matter if you're pounding your opponents bunker at 7 or 17 bps.

I know good ROF helps at break outs etc, but you still have to put that paint where it counts.

Looking at the score boards, same teams at top of the board before and after ramping. Does this mean fast shooting doesn't really matter much, better teams adopt faster or top teams have been cheating all the time?

 

[Mark Toye-Nexus]

Originally posted by Baca Loco
1--you all are playing word games I'm not. You may not like my argument but nobody yet has put a dent in it.

Dent in it?

Gee, I havent bothered looking here for a coupla days cos your argument is outta here - destroyed.

Baca 'ceaseless pursuer of semantics' Loco - and you arent playing word games?

LOL

 

[Mark Toye-Nexus]

Originally posted by JoseDominguez
Any "skill" which can be practiced on a play station 2 is absolutely nothing to shout about.

At least you arent trying to argue that it isnt a skill