J
Millennium Series 2003
- Thread starter Wadidiz
- Start date
Flashpoint dude, tha one and only...don't you read your sponsors' magazine?
ow do you expect to get better if you don't read my column man?
ow do you expect to get better if you don't read my column man?
J
Johan
Guest
I will see you at the World Cup right!
talk to you there
Flashpoint is that a rec team? never heard about them....
DUDE
talk to you there
Flashpoint is that a rec team? never heard about them....
DUDE
We're a Wreck Team dude, we'll wreck your Euro ass...
I'll be tha one on tha podium holding tha Cup dude - you can buy me a beer (away from tha site, obviously...)
peace
I'll be tha one on tha podium holding tha Cup dude - you can buy me a beer (away from tha site, obviously...)
peace
Pros vs. Pros...
Okay, someone asked for 1 good reason why pros shouldn't only play pros - well here it is...
The basis of any fair competition is the fact that all teams competing are doing so on a level playing field. This means that all teams should have 7 players, all teams should have the same rules and no teams should have benefits.
When you add in the equation of pros playing non-pros (and when I say this, I am also ot ruling out everyone competing in there own division, so spare this "so called pros's" crap) you automatically give one team an advantage - and it is not the way most people think, the higher level (could be pro, could be an am against a novice) team is at a disadvantage.
Now before everyone gets too riled up - think about this. You have 2 teams competing, 1 who is supposed to lose (the lesser team) and 1 who is supposed to win - ON PAPER. This gives the lesser an advantage - why? - because there is no pressure, the consequences of a lost game are not the same. Now add the fact that there are many "lesser" (Am or novices) teams who are sandbaggers and should be up one level - then this really throws the equation for fair games off.
Until there is proper ranking (to get rid of the sandbaggers), pro vs. pro (or am vs. am), or one open class where teams all play for the same prize - there will never be level competition and there will be teams in all divisions ending up in the semi's who had an easier time just because of the luck of the draw.
If a team wants to play against pros - then step up or have training days - if you want a part of the money step-up and play on an equal footing. I am not saying that Am's should get nothing, but a prize voucher for more than the previous value of prize money doesn't seem bad to me.
goose
P.S. for someone who play on a pro team that supposedly gets everything paid for - you guys need to check my bank account and then get a clue. I may get free equipment & paint so do a lot of am teams, but I sure as hell don't get free entry, hotels, car rental, food and airfare. The grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence - just maybe a lighter shade of brown.
Okay, someone asked for 1 good reason why pros shouldn't only play pros - well here it is...
The basis of any fair competition is the fact that all teams competing are doing so on a level playing field. This means that all teams should have 7 players, all teams should have the same rules and no teams should have benefits.
When you add in the equation of pros playing non-pros (and when I say this, I am also ot ruling out everyone competing in there own division, so spare this "so called pros's" crap) you automatically give one team an advantage - and it is not the way most people think, the higher level (could be pro, could be an am against a novice) team is at a disadvantage.
Now before everyone gets too riled up - think about this. You have 2 teams competing, 1 who is supposed to lose (the lesser team) and 1 who is supposed to win - ON PAPER. This gives the lesser an advantage - why? - because there is no pressure, the consequences of a lost game are not the same. Now add the fact that there are many "lesser" (Am or novices) teams who are sandbaggers and should be up one level - then this really throws the equation for fair games off.
Until there is proper ranking (to get rid of the sandbaggers), pro vs. pro (or am vs. am), or one open class where teams all play for the same prize - there will never be level competition and there will be teams in all divisions ending up in the semi's who had an easier time just because of the luck of the draw.
If a team wants to play against pros - then step up or have training days - if you want a part of the money step-up and play on an equal footing. I am not saying that Am's should get nothing, but a prize voucher for more than the previous value of prize money doesn't seem bad to me.
goose
P.S. for someone who play on a pro team that supposedly gets everything paid for - you guys need to check my bank account and then get a clue. I may get free equipment & paint so do a lot of am teams, but I sure as hell don't get free entry, hotels, car rental, food and airfare. The grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence - just maybe a lighter shade of brown.
J
Johan
Guest
I have to say that TJ is right.
I was talking to a very well known Pro at Campaign Cup. Now the team he plays for have been around for years, yes they are a Pro team Yes they are sponsored.... BUT.... Not as well as you might think. They still have to pay air fares and hotels, now bringing 9 guys from the USA is not cheap. If my memeory is correct it cost them in Total to do the whole event $12,000 and they only get some of the bill picked up if they come top 3. So why do they do it? Cos they ALL love the sport. No other reason as plain as that.
Ams getting prizes...... Right On in my book. If they are sponsored then selling the is not that hard. They would know people conected to shops etc so why not approach them and ask them to buy the goods. Ok they wont get full retail for them but it is better than nothing!
Just my thoughts you understand
Piper
I was talking to a very well known Pro at Campaign Cup. Now the team he plays for have been around for years, yes they are a Pro team Yes they are sponsored.... BUT.... Not as well as you might think. They still have to pay air fares and hotels, now bringing 9 guys from the USA is not cheap. If my memeory is correct it cost them in Total to do the whole event $12,000 and they only get some of the bill picked up if they come top 3. So why do they do it? Cos they ALL love the sport. No other reason as plain as that.
Ams getting prizes...... Right On in my book. If they are sponsored then selling the is not that hard. They would know people conected to shops etc so why not approach them and ask them to buy the goods. Ok they wont get full retail for them but it is better than nothing!
Just my thoughts you understand
Piper
one last thing...
again on this equal competiton thing...
At campaign - Ignition (pro from sweden) - came in 13th. As anyone who was there knows, the pro draw was extremely tight, and the reason why they missed the semi's was they had to settle for 80 points from a game where a novice team didn't show up.
Assuming that even if the won the game with only one body left - that would have put them in a 3way tie for the last 2 semi spots.
DOES THIS SOUND FAIR??
goose
again on this equal competiton thing...
At campaign - Ignition (pro from sweden) - came in 13th. As anyone who was there knows, the pro draw was extremely tight, and the reason why they missed the semi's was they had to settle for 80 points from a game where a novice team didn't show up.
Assuming that even if the won the game with only one body left - that would have put them in a 3way tie for the last 2 semi spots.
DOES THIS SOUND FAIR??
goose
J
Johan
Guest
Pros vs. Pros...
As far as pressure is concerned, that is just mental. Get beyond it if you can.
As long as the seeding is fair (not always a given) then everyone is playing on a level playing field, IMO.
Ignition didn't lose because of a walk-over. They lost because they missed some points in some other games. And if the walk-over points weren't fair, maybe we need to change the walk-over point system.
Again, is there some way we could mix am A's with pro's for only a couple of games in prelims. Top am teams deserve to play against pro's who are often not any better than they are and against the better pro's to be better ready for the transition.
I admit, I may be missing something here, but this is the way I see it now.
Steve
The difference between am A and pro is often just one of transition, the amateur team is in their last season before being forced to go pro. There is nothing unfair about two equal teams that happen at that moment to have different class titles to go at each other.
As far as pressure is concerned, that is just mental. Get beyond it if you can.
As long as the seeding is fair (not always a given) then everyone is playing on a level playing field, IMO.
Ignition didn't lose because of a walk-over. They lost because they missed some points in some other games. And if the walk-over points weren't fair, maybe we need to change the walk-over point system.
Again, is there some way we could mix am A's with pro's for only a couple of games in prelims. Top am teams deserve to play against pro's who are often not any better than they are and against the better pro's to be better ready for the transition.
I admit, I may be missing something here, but this is the way I see it now.
Steve