Millennium Series 2003
- Thread starter Wadidiz
- Start date
I hear Brimstone Smoke is coming over, and a coupla of tha Pros who don't make X-Ball will probably come as well...think you'll still see 3 - 6 of our teams at most events...more at Toulouse.
Dang!
Richmond Italia and his secret plans for world domination....
Im curious when will europe jump on to that bandwagon.
Peace
Richmond Italia and his secret plans for world domination....
Im curious when will europe jump on to that bandwagon.
Peace
Nick
It was not my intention to imply that organisers run the body but that they are convinced only to allow registered players to play in their tournaments. Of course I want to see the body made up of a mixture of players and industry and even somebody from outside the sport (can never hurt to have an outside view).
Without the commitment from organisers to stick to governing body's rules and to inforce members only for palyers will you ever get the total commitment from players. If you can still go and play tournaments without having to be a member than why would all players join? There has to be an incentive for the organisers to commit to this - standardised rules, publicity etc. which means that they would really want to run sanctioned tournaments and that players would only want to go to sanctioned tournaments.
Hope that is a little clearer - I believe we are on the same track here - I just wish that others could see it the same way too. Surely it would be a lot easier to get funding for a sport which has a recognised body overseeing it?
It was not my intention to imply that organisers run the body but that they are convinced only to allow registered players to play in their tournaments. Of course I want to see the body made up of a mixture of players and industry and even somebody from outside the sport (can never hurt to have an outside view).
Without the commitment from organisers to stick to governing body's rules and to inforce members only for palyers will you ever get the total commitment from players. If you can still go and play tournaments without having to be a member than why would all players join? There has to be an incentive for the organisers to commit to this - standardised rules, publicity etc. which means that they would really want to run sanctioned tournaments and that players would only want to go to sanctioned tournaments.
Hope that is a little clearer - I believe we are on the same track here - I just wish that others could see it the same way too. Surely it would be a lot easier to get funding for a sport which has a recognised body overseeing it?
Hotpoint,
Sorry, I am well aware of the top job the UKPSF does but we need to get a commitment from organisers to follow the Series 2002 example and expect all players to be members. Can anyone shed any light on any other European national bodies similar to the UKPSF?
Sorry, I am well aware of the top job the UKPSF does but we need to get a commitment from organisers to follow the Series 2002 example and expect all players to be members. Can anyone shed any light on any other European national bodies similar to the UKPSF?
Hotpoint,
What we need is this "M25 League" to get started, and once everybody realises just how top it is, then the organisers can say - if you want to play, you need the card (a bit like the millennium ID cards)
But why would a tournament organiser (who has costs to cover) turn away a team who want to give him cold hard cash?
What we need is this "M25 League" to get started, and once everybody realises just how top it is, then the organisers can say - if you want to play, you need the card (a bit like the millennium ID cards)
Well...
This is not any kind of critisism against the Millennium series, but just a few thoughts of how everything also might just be diffrently...
I do think that any sport has the best chances of developing when it's run by the players and federations. From players for players is the main rule that makes sure that series or a league is designed to serve the interests of players.
The business side, commersial event organizers and the manfacturers are also very important part of the sport but only in balance with the independ players' federation which sets the rules and is "impartial" side in the whole show.
In Finland we have had a Finnish paintball league since 1994. It's arranged by the players for the players and since 1997 by the Finnish paintball federation.
In season 2002 there were 15 teams competing in 7-man league and 19 teams in 5-man 1.-division. In next season we will probably see also 7-man 1. division and already the 5-man 2.-division. The series runs in 5 tournaments where it's mandatory for every team to marshall one leg. The number of competing teams is increasing all the time.
The league table is similar as in football and teams will step up and down in the end of the season as in all the major sports.
And what is the best thing in it? The quality of the game is on the same (or better) level as in commersial tournaments and entry fee is only 570 Euros for the whole SERIES from a 7-man team. With that money you get to play in 4 tournaments and you have to marshall one. That's 142,5 euros per leg per team. In the Millennium the entry fee for example in am category is 1000e! Well, I agree that the Millennium leg is 3 or 4 times better, but not 7! ;-)
Still all the event organizers are independent (teams or commersial) and get paid from the federation for setting up a leg and have all the additional commersial rights with them, so if you want, you can make money with it.
We also have a license system. You have to pay for 35 euros to be a licensed player for any level. But comparing to Millennium 30 euros id card, its not only a lousy card that is only a extra profit for...someone? It also contains an insurence covering all the accidents happening in any tournament or practice! Last year we also got a Finnish paintball magazine with it!
In a long run this kind of low-cost, "players first"-league will produce great teams and more players will join in our sport. It's very expensive for an amateur team to fly over from Finland to every Millennium, so that's why there are so few Finnish teams in the whole Millennium series gaining experience. I think still some kind of example of the standard of our league is that Dream Team, placing second after Cyclone in the finnish league this year tried out for the first time in the Millennium this year in Joy Masters. They were 3rd AM, in their first ever Millennium! I think that also Cyclone, 6th overall in Millennium AM, would have done much better if it wouldn't be so darn expensive to fly over from Finland and they could've had their best squad in every leg!
The sport of paintball is already very very expensive to play. I am scared to hear the rumours that Millennium is going to be even more expensive in the future. Also the X-ball as a format may be great to watch and play. But in any sport it should be the same game from the beginning and I don't think we have many junior teams with a paint bill you have to pay for a game in local tournament... The s**t drops down... If we accept all time increasing expenses to play, we can kiss goodbye the whole sport in the long run.
Well, we have great, inexpensive league system in Finland (and still our team with few others coming over playing the Millennium.) We have all insurenced players. And in the spring the president of FPF was in our parliament as an expert to give a statement on the behalf of our sport as tey were changing the law conserning the air-guns. (Everything went VERY well...
)
That's just something we have done to play paintball.
Any thoughts?
-Juho, Takeover, Finland
This is not any kind of critisism against the Millennium series, but just a few thoughts of how everything also might just be diffrently...
I do think that any sport has the best chances of developing when it's run by the players and federations. From players for players is the main rule that makes sure that series or a league is designed to serve the interests of players.
The business side, commersial event organizers and the manfacturers are also very important part of the sport but only in balance with the independ players' federation which sets the rules and is "impartial" side in the whole show.
In Finland we have had a Finnish paintball league since 1994. It's arranged by the players for the players and since 1997 by the Finnish paintball federation.
In season 2002 there were 15 teams competing in 7-man league and 19 teams in 5-man 1.-division. In next season we will probably see also 7-man 1. division and already the 5-man 2.-division. The series runs in 5 tournaments where it's mandatory for every team to marshall one leg. The number of competing teams is increasing all the time.
The league table is similar as in football and teams will step up and down in the end of the season as in all the major sports.
And what is the best thing in it? The quality of the game is on the same (or better) level as in commersial tournaments and entry fee is only 570 Euros for the whole SERIES from a 7-man team. With that money you get to play in 4 tournaments and you have to marshall one. That's 142,5 euros per leg per team. In the Millennium the entry fee for example in am category is 1000e! Well, I agree that the Millennium leg is 3 or 4 times better, but not 7! ;-)
Still all the event organizers are independent (teams or commersial) and get paid from the federation for setting up a leg and have all the additional commersial rights with them, so if you want, you can make money with it.
We also have a license system. You have to pay for 35 euros to be a licensed player for any level. But comparing to Millennium 30 euros id card, its not only a lousy card that is only a extra profit for...someone? It also contains an insurence covering all the accidents happening in any tournament or practice! Last year we also got a Finnish paintball magazine with it!
In a long run this kind of low-cost, "players first"-league will produce great teams and more players will join in our sport. It's very expensive for an amateur team to fly over from Finland to every Millennium, so that's why there are so few Finnish teams in the whole Millennium series gaining experience. I think still some kind of example of the standard of our league is that Dream Team, placing second after Cyclone in the finnish league this year tried out for the first time in the Millennium this year in Joy Masters. They were 3rd AM, in their first ever Millennium! I think that also Cyclone, 6th overall in Millennium AM, would have done much better if it wouldn't be so darn expensive to fly over from Finland and they could've had their best squad in every leg!
The sport of paintball is already very very expensive to play. I am scared to hear the rumours that Millennium is going to be even more expensive in the future. Also the X-ball as a format may be great to watch and play. But in any sport it should be the same game from the beginning and I don't think we have many junior teams with a paint bill you have to pay for a game in local tournament... The s**t drops down... If we accept all time increasing expenses to play, we can kiss goodbye the whole sport in the long run.
Well, we have great, inexpensive league system in Finland (and still our team with few others coming over playing the Millennium.) We have all insurenced players. And in the spring the president of FPF was in our parliament as an expert to give a statement on the behalf of our sport as tey were changing the law conserning the air-guns. (Everything went VERY well...
)That's just something we have done to play paintball.
Any thoughts?
-Juho, Takeover, Finland
Juho,
Your post is very interesting with some very good points. I hope it gets the attention it deserves. Goes along with the efforts Nick IB has put forth for a player's league/association.
While we're here, I have to say I have been very impressed in recent years with you Finnish people and your ability to pull together with solidarity for team efforts--politically, business-wise and otherwise. I've seen good examples of that in paintball in particular.
I wish you, or someone else, could give us some tips on how we could get some of your ideas going on an EU basis. I would even like to see your ideas and example implemented here in Sweden.
Steve
Your post is very interesting with some very good points. I hope it gets the attention it deserves. Goes along with the efforts Nick IB has put forth for a player's league/association.
While we're here, I have to say I have been very impressed in recent years with you Finnish people and your ability to pull together with solidarity for team efforts--politically, business-wise and otherwise. I've seen good examples of that in paintball in particular.
I wish you, or someone else, could give us some tips on how we could get some of your ideas going on an EU basis. I would even like to see your ideas and example implemented here in Sweden.
Steve