Baca, I'm thinking you will need a thread per rule/item/issue... judging by how the debates usually go... 
Millennium Rules ?
- Thread starter tommi
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I agree very much with the main thrust of what you're saying.
The padding thing WAS clearly defined originally IMO but look where we are now.
And I think the no-clear-hopper rule has a good intention of making it easier for a judge to see hits. Since people don't seem to know the difference between clear and translucent (I don't think that's subjective) then I suppose the rulemakers have to limit hoppers to opaque ones. But then we would have to dictionary define "opaque".
As for having enough judges to make it virtually impossible for a hit to be missed...it ain't ever going to happen.
Steve
Nick,
Doesn't most of the problem with Clear Loaders stem from when you have a break inside them - then to the Ref, it looks like a hit?
So you'd have to make sure the Fill wasn't Pink or Orange too - defeating the point of 'protecting' those colours in the first place.
Doesn't most of the problem with Clear Loaders stem from when you have a break inside them - then to the Ref, it looks like a hit?
So you'd have to make sure the Fill wasn't Pink or Orange too - defeating the point of 'protecting' those colours in the first place.
U mean like amateur wrestling did with the WWF?Originally posted by Baca Loco
Fair point. Obviously I'm presuming the NXL evolves along lines of actual sport--and that is, by some reckoning, presumtious indeed.
I'm going to play devil's advocate because it has to be done, or things just get silly with these rules.
And what is/has been done to fix it?
Or will a stupid exception be made and in effect everyone turn a blind eye while they go and look at making other rules which won't be enforced?
Look at what's happening now because that rule wasn't enforced. Already people are makign jersey's with more and more padding... I mean have you seen the latest Empire jersey's? (what a plug huh? ) My jersey this year has a padded strip from elbow to wrist because it's allowed in the rules.
Want to bet I can't make 'clear loaders' that are allowed with in any rules you come up with, unless you say opaque only? I'm not doing it to cheat but because people want clear and lightly coloured loaders.
Oh and then as a major sponsor you want to outlaw all bar maybe 5% of the loaders I currently make?
I think there is a greater reason for stopping padding in jersey's than there is clear loaders but that could just be me. You haven't fixed that rule yet, so what value will there be in trying to enforce another similarly weak rule?
Opaque is a much better rule! But as above that rules out probably 95% of loaders currently made. Do you think the players and sponsors would be happy with that? Do you care?
I would rather see the resources and efforts put to making standards and numbers of judges better, but I guess that is harder work than making more silly rules that won't/can't be enforced.
How many 'hits' do you think are really hidden by clear loaders? How many bounces caused by padded shirts?
And now in comparison to players sliding/wiping hits and running down field playing on with hits on them?????
Which issue is more important to solve and which will make a bigger difference? and which will have the biggest effect in comparison to the costs involved?
Nick, great point, standardise the rules so no protected colours can be seen and then allow anything else. So if I want to use hellfire I have to have a darker loader so orange doesn't show through but if I have a blue/silver shelled ball I can use a clear/translucent loader.
Then the rule is SIMPLE! No orange or pink to be seen.
That's easy, and even colour blind fools like me can't get it wrong...
Although I would want scientific clarification of when pink isn't red and yellow changes to be orange obviously...
So what happened?
And what is/has been done to fix it?
Or will a stupid exception be made and in effect everyone turn a blind eye while they go and look at making other rules which won't be enforced?
Look at what's happening now because that rule wasn't enforced. Already people are makign jersey's with more and more padding... I mean have you seen the latest Empire
jersey's? (what a plug huh? ) My jersey this year has a padded strip from elbow to wrist because it's allowed in the rules.Want to bet I can't make 'clear loaders' that are allowed with in any rules you come up with, unless you say opaque only? I'm not doing it to cheat but because people want clear and lightly coloured loaders.
Oh and then as a major sponsor you want to outlaw all bar maybe 5% of the loaders I currently make?
I think there is a greater reason for stopping padding in jersey's than there is clear loaders but that could just be me. You haven't fixed that rule yet, so what value will there be in trying to enforce another similarly weak rule?
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.Originally posted by Wadidiz
And I think the no-clear-hopper rule has a good intention of making it easier for a judge to see hits. Since people don't seem to know the difference between clear and translucent (I don't think that's subjective) then I suppose the rulemakers have to limit hoppers to opaque ones. But then we would have to dictionary define "opaque".
Opaque is a much better rule! But as above that rules out probably 95% of loaders currently made. Do you think the players and sponsors would be happy with that? Do you care?
I see FAR more issues in paintball related to bad judging than I do to padded jersey's or clear loaders.
I would rather see the resources and efforts put to making standards and numbers of judges better, but I guess that is harder work than making more silly rules that won't/can't be enforced.
How many 'hits' do you think are really hidden by clear loaders? How many bounces caused by padded shirts?
And now in comparison to players sliding/wiping hits and running down field playing on with hits on them?????
Which issue is more important to solve and which will make a bigger difference? and which will have the biggest effect in comparison to the costs involved?
Nick, great point, standardise the rules so no protected colours can be seen and then allow anything else. So if I want to use hellfire I have to have a darker loader so orange doesn't show through but if I have a blue/silver shelled ball I can use a clear/translucent loader.
Then the rule is SIMPLE! No orange or pink to be seen.
That's easy, and even colour blind fools like me can't get it wrong...
Although I would want scientific clarification of when pink isn't red and yellow changes to be orange obviously...
MrPink
Great rule and idea!
This way players don't have to change their loaders unless they want to shoot protected coloured shelled paint.
And if they want to they can simply dye clear shells to solve the problem, without any concern on whether they are translucent enough or not, just as long as you can't see the paint as being pink or orange.
Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
Actually, as far as I know, the reason was orangeshelled Hellefire, with orange fill.... and everyone shooting it in the NXL with clear loaders !
Very rarely is a break inside a loader an issue..... and as you know, if you get one, you are not that much of an "issue" to the opponents anyhow
The way I suggest, you can still shoot orange Hellfire, but just need to not use a loader that presents the loader as "orange" to a judge.... or alternatively get Hellfire with a different colour shell, if you want to keep your clear loader.
Nick
Great rule and idea!
This way players don't have to change their loaders unless they want to shoot protected coloured shelled paint.
And if they want to they can simply dye clear shells to solve the problem, without any concern on whether they are translucent enough or not, just as long as you can't see the paint as being pink or orange.
I don't make anything. (that you can buy as having been through my hands anyway).
I just design and R&D.
Oh and choose colours and materials for things like loaders...
Time for a slightly opaque loader made from rubber honeycomb... in orange, because it's currently allowed...
I was talking hypothetically from a manufacturer and sponsors point of view.
Nice idea on the padding also... I wonder how many players would cease being so fragile and somehow not need the padding anymore?
(that you can buy as having been through my hands anyway).I just design and R&D.
Oh and choose colours and materials for things like loaders...
Time for a slightly opaque loader made from rubber honeycomb... in orange, because it's currently allowed...
I was talking hypothetically from a manufacturer and sponsors point of view.
Nice idea on the padding also... I wonder how many players would cease being so fragile and somehow not need the padding anymore?
I'm with you there. I think I've made it clear in this thread and in others that every rule needs to be consistently enforced or deleted.
I've also pushed very hard for pro judges (which we have now in Millennium) and for a training program (I'm still working on that one).
Steve
Col, Nick is like a cuckoo, he always pinches other people's ideas and proclaims them as his own but I think YOUR idea is excellent and should appease everybody