Military-look markers in US- is it popular?

[Hatts]

Originally posted by gyroscope
I will stand by the statement "most scenario/ rec players are not as good," without any ill will or whatever. I mean no offence. It is simply the case that when you keep score consistently and play in environments where mistakes are punished quickly, you improve or move on to something else.

Perhaps what raised the hackles was the generalisation of the comment... "not as good" - which begs the question not as good at what? I've both played and run scenario games in the US and in the UK and I've been to the odd tourney here and there ...

The skill set and mentality of Sup'Air and large scale scenario games are different and I can't think of many Sup'Air stars who could comfortably or easily coordinate the effective movement of 70+ players moving across uneven terrain through woodland, volley firing as they go (might be interesting to watch that on an X-ball field )... regardless of whether they're wearing camo or have their heads wrapped in tin-foil (according to a friend of mine, the latter allegedly also stops the Illuminati beaming mind control signals into your brain from their satellite network, so it may have dual function - but I digress )

Personally I don't like "Mil-sim" having the done the "Mil-real" for several years but by the same token I understand there's a following and a market for it. The scenarios I play and organise are based around films - they're fantasy, it's putting yourself in a movie or a PS2 game. It's theatre not War. The emphasis is on having a fun day and whilst the "winning" aspect is nice it's not the motivating reason people play such games. I suspect that even War-sim is possibly more about the "experience" rather than the actual win at all costs mentality which dominates paintball as a competitive (dare I say it ) "sport"

The US scenario games I have played actually had very little "Rambo" feel to them at all, hell "Monty Pythons Holy Grail" game with a 6 foot white rabbit and an enchanter called Tim couldn't have been further away and there was very little evidence of any fascination with trying to make paintball guns look like real ones. Although one guy had gone to extra-ordinary lengths to make his gun look like a very convincing crossbow

Getting back to the original point then (I sometimes do... eventually) in my personal experience very few paintballers on either side of the water actually try or even want to try and make their paintball guns look more "realistic".

Those that are into real guns and Military simulations tend to move more towards AirSoft as that has a whole different look and feel more in keeping with the "real gun" image. And of course you then have the guys who are really into war re-enactment using replica blank firing replica weapons... different thing altogether

 

[Gyroscope]

Ok- I can be more specific.

"... not as good at shooting out opposing players while not being shot out themselves."

I realize that we are to some degree comparing apples and oranges, as there are not any (to my knowledge) tournaments that involve 70 people (or 50, or 300, or any large number) on one team. Also, there are skills used in the woods that are not used on tournament fields (crawling, camoflage- in the sense of not being seen rather than picking a good print for your clothes, running over uneven ground). I still maintain that most recreational players are less devoted and disciplined about improving core skills (shooting the other guy while staying alive).

It would be the exception, rather than the rule, that a recreational participant practice at least once weekly with an eye toward improving specific skills, keepng careful track of wins, loses, and reasons for eliminations in both directions. I am sure there are some rec players who approach things that way, but they are exceptional. The inverse is true of tournament players. Further, most rec players (at least in the US) play with whatever people show up the day they go to the field. Tournament players play with the same teammates regularly, developing a familiarity and provisional trust that is mostly absent from the walk-on experience. I believe most casual players look at the marker someone is using as a barometer of potency on the field.

Of course, since recreational players don't usually keep records of performance, and winning isn't the main motivation anyway, there is no way or need to prove otherwise. It seems like rec players are playing to have fun, which is fine. I still believe the median skill level is lower in rec than in tournament players. I am not hating, I am not trying to say tournament is superior as a format (that is an individual call). I am saying that tournament players in general have more developed skills at the core issure of paintball than those who do not compete.

To be clear, I claim that the core issue in paintball is to shoot the other guy, while not being shot, yourself. Further, tournament players are on average better at that than players who do not compete.

 

[Grendel-Khan]

Word. WHat did the five fingers say to the face? SLAP! Coold Bloooooded.... I'm Rick James Bitch! (RIP)

 

[ruthlessp8ntballer]

good, nice PC response

 

[Grendel-Khan]

Just trying to spice things up baby. Couldn't resist the chance to drop a Dave Chapelle reference.

 

[ruthlessp8ntballer]

good call my man!

"Ye-ah!" "O-Kay!"

-Lil' John

 

[Hatts]

Originally posted by gyroscope
Ok- I can be more specific.

"... not as good at shooting out opposing players while not being shot out themselves."

Couldn't agree more After all, thinking of the upcoming Staar Waars scenario game it almost doesn't really matter if you get shot. You're hit, you go back to base, re-chrono, re-insert and go straight back out on another mad charge into the face of overwhelming firepower ... or alternatively go and have another cup of tea in the safe area. It's like having multiple lives in Doom or Halo or whatever the latest PS2/ X-box shoot-em-up is.

Personally I believe that scenario or "big game" play is more a matter of logistics than indivdual skill... and I suspect that people don't keep track of statistics in such games because there simply isn't a need to. Someone who was into "big game" play and did so on a regular basis would however probably keep track of other things like average turn-around time for re-insertion, what concentration of fire power was required to overcome certain defences/obstacles/numbers or achieve certain objectives.

A good tourney player can move, snap shoot, sprint, shoot left and right handed from uncomfortable positions...he doesn't need to add up (and aparrently a lot of them can't ) or even be able tie his own shoe laces (hence zip up footwear )... a good "big game" player on the other hand can get 50 people in the right place at the right time while co-ordinating a further 20 doing something completely different all the while balancing losses with new arrivals... or as an individual have the sheer stamina to turn around and get a gun back into the field as quickly as possible to sustain levels of required firepower...

Completely different skill set... Comparing apples and oranges is a very good analogy in this case.

In my rather long winded way what I was saying was that in my experience there's actually very few paintballers go out of their way to get a "military" look to their markers. In the majority they're just as happy with the brightly anodized ones in the same configuration that tourney players use so I don't think military look paintball markers are particularly popular on either side of the pond.

I think paintball itself, despite it's origins in the woods and the camo just doesn't have a "military" feel to it and therefore there's no real desire to emulate military looking equipment. In the majority at any rate...

 

[Grendel-Khan]

Originally posted by Hatts
In my rather long winded way what I was saying was that in my experience there's actually very few paintballers go out of their way to get a "military" look to their markers. In the majority they're just as happy with the brightly anodized ones in the same configuration that tourney players use so I don't think military look paintball markers are particularly popular on either side of the pond.

I think paintball itself, despite it's origins in the woods and the camo just doesn't have a "military" feel to it and therefore there's no real desire to emulate military looking equipment. In the majority at any rate...

Define what you mean be "Particularly popular", I can't open a magazine without seeing ads from BT or Arakion selling military like guns and addons. There is obviously a market for these somewhere. As for the "military feel" of modern paintball, how many different D-Day games are there in the states? The Desert Fox Game, Tank Wars, Operation Glass Splinter, Blackhawk Down........it's an endless list of real world military storylines played by thousands every month. How does that not qualify as a military feel, if by numbers only? I think there is a fairly large market for military style markers. If these companies are sttaying in business, somebodies buying their products. Whos going to bother with a camo BDu's justs to have a bright red gun?

 

[stongle]

I think Hatts experience is ltd to the UK where there is a limited appeal to military scenario. It certainly should have been qualified. When US MilSim (D-Day, BHD etc), get larger attendances than the whole of the UK Rec and Tournament scene in attendance, I'd imagine there is a market for these guns. I think there's a tendency to think back to the old days of the Empire and think for our former commonwealth cousins.

Anyway, Milsim is the future, I'm telling ya. No one's got the patience, balls or money to take tournament to the main stream. You heard it here first.

 

[Gyroscope]

Originally posted by stongle
I think there's a tendency to think back to the old days of the Empire and think for our former commonwealth cousins.

It would be so cool if your rec-ballers rocked pith helmets.