M25 divitions a disscution thread please read

[Ralph]

If i was a sponsor i would want to know why all my teams(regional settings aside) were not entered into a 32 team event .
I would be questioning their commitment and my budget!!!!!!!!

 

[Duncster]

Damned right Angel.

Personally I think that the country needs a 7 man league, and if Sparklie and co can get these amazing locations then PLEASE continue to do so.... but all new tourney series' are going to suffer from teething problems, and they are only ever going to be sorted out by talking about these glitches and acting to remedy them accordingly.

OK, so I played at Reading in Storm 3, which was a potentially awesome event (man was I pumped on Saturday!!). Field layouts were second to none, netting was superb, marshalling was some of the best I've seen in a long time, air was great (cheers H-Pac), competition was top notch, and stuff... but....and there's always buts, no matter how good an event is... the divisional structure needs to be sorted out!!!

This series has the underlying "stuff" to be the greatest series the UK has ever seen. No one is ever going to be happy with everything, and not everyone is going to be happy even if everything was seemingly perfect. However, the M25 series AND the UK paintballing public aint going to get better if we don't listen to EVERYTHING that eachother are saying and act accordingly.

When I started playing only 5 years ago, there wasn't really any real series established. This has all changed and it's all too easy to forget that. We're in "Series Land" now and individual tourneys account for just about cock all (sorry if I offended anyone there.... you need to get on the band wagon!!)

The MM has got it just about bang on with regards to sorting divisions out, and as such pretty much every team is striving to climb the ranks (sorry Bully, you're probably ace too, but I haven't played S2K_ lately, so I can only comment on what I know...). Is there any reason why this series can't be organised in the same mold?? (mould? molde? I dunno...)

Sparklie, etc.... PLEASE don't get discouraged by all the bitching, I think you're onto a great thing here. Just keep listening and do what you can!! I know you've got teams knocking on your door to get a place in this series, but you need to look after them ALL. The better response you get from each tourney, the bigger the queue is for the next one, and you'll be able to easily justify opening a 4th field comfortably.

Sorry for waffling.... several ales tends to have this effect....

Dunc.

 

[Liz]

There is some quite good stuff in this thread, but what I haven't seen is any constructive suggestions on HOW it can really be sorted. Apart from the Storm Am thing (which we've pretty much discussed to the end and back again), how on earth can we have a tournament with 4 divisions of 8 teams each and a varying entry list, and not move different numbers of teams up and down each time?
The suggestion that we have different sizes of divisions would be such a logistical nightmare it isn't really worth discussing. And the suggestion by one person (which seems to have disappeared from this board!) that we wait until everyone who wants to play has paid a deposit, then tell the majority of novice teams to get stuffed as we can only have 8 in that division was totally unacceptable
Lots of people have commented on boards or via PMs and e-mail that they aren't happy with the division they've been placed in, but I don't see anyone coming up with any different suggestions on what they think the draw should be, e.g. if we put Storm Am down WHO we could put up into Div 1 to replace them, especially as at least one other team in Div 1 is also unhappy and want to be moved down. Remember the criteria for placing teams is general ability, recent results and experience.

Looking forward to all your suggestions for the draw with interest!

 

[mikeanywhere]

Just a suggestion Liz but as everyone is most likely using the M25 as a training ground for the Millennium series, why not do it in the same format ie 1 x Pro, 2 x AM's and the various Nov.

Cheers

 

[Liz]

Thank you!
One constructive suggestion at least - so what do you all think about having mixed divisions? And if you like the idea, should we be looking at using that next season, or changing things mid-season this year as well? (Could be a nightmare working out series positions now though! )

 

[stongle]

Liz,

Had'nt we alreday suggested this????

Hmmm I did'nt realise that there was some form of final ranking type / series prise issue. It is somewhat unfortunate that certain vociferous (I'm feeling laquatious today), people are unhappy with there divisions and placings. Perhaps the only way to decide divisions; not subject to accusations of bias and inpropriety (I'm not making this accusation) is a draw (Like FA / World cup etc). This way the divisions are random and you have to be very unlucky to draw more than one pro team. It does seem that the spirit of fun and enjoyment is being lost by certain individuals, I remeber looking back at the Campiagn threads last year and their was a nervous delight amoungst the players drawing Russian Legion or Dynasty just for the thrill of going up against the best teams at that time. Obviously there is some sense in the arguements that it is unfair to get all Pro teams if your a novice, but the odd one pro game should be viewed positively as a learning experience. I think there seems to be some **edit** "Agreement" as suggested by the less unhinged people Mikeanywhere, James Adkin etc that the div's should be mixed ability until enough consistency can be found to fill the appropriate teams into each divsion. Perhaps if series prizes were offered at the begining, the teams could take a vote on having this reroted into reducing the costs or the implementation of another field. Once again only suggestions not telling your how to run the shiznit. I alos think there is a tendancy by teams and players ego's top be in way in excess of their abilities. If you reckon your AmB / Nov, be honest and go with the lowest common denominator. We ourselves were guilty of this very recently.

 

[cgrieves]

Mixed divisions could be interesting. Back in the good old days most of the Tourneys I played with Ballistic were mixed, and while it meant novice teams were unlikely to win a division, it gave you a good spread of teams of differing ability to play.

Thinking aloud here, but how about a formula 1 style points system with a handicap element?

Teams get series points from their final positions in the division in that leg, e.g. for positions 1 to 8 they get 10,6,4,3,2,1,0,0 points towards their league total, or maybe 10,8,6,5,4,3,2,1

When you play teams, you score points derived from their league scores, maybe an average of their total score over the series (total points divided by rounds played). So a nov team that beats a successful or pro team in their division get rewarded by big points in the leg, but pro teams the steamroller novice teams don't score big. It would also help compensate if a division ends up loaded with more quality teams. Not sure how points for eliminations would fit in.

I suppose you'd have to throw some figures together and simulate what might happen. The aim would be to keep the league scores close so that pro teams don't run away with the league, and novice teams that play hard don't lag too far behind.

Just a thought.

 

[stongle]

Sorta handicapping in reverse???

Seems quite a good idea We just need to be carefull to ensure that the points handicaps are fairly decided, but could work in practice. A review of the teams performances (i.e if a nov team starts getting maxes without loss) should be the priority after each tournament rather than waiting to just before the next touney. This way plenty of time remains to decide the exact breakdown of scores and div's. So to summerize my beating round the bush, do the div's or handicapping at the end of a tourney, not just before the next one.

 

[paintfly]

First things first......
How about changing the name to "not quite M25" League.
Venues seem to get further and further away from the M25.

 

[stongle]

Paintfly seems that your recent Mil performances have done you no favours for the Divisions either! Or are you guys back on the boil now?