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fred1

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Sep 25, 2003
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I'm not sure about this but I think Glenn was the first to be approached by XSV. Word was already going around in Madrid that there was an offer on the table for him. When I asked Dave if he had received any offers he answered: "No I suck, and I'm an ******* so no one wants me".... I didn't enquire any further after that... :)
 

JtJ

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Feb 26, 2003
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Originally posted by duffistuta
Depending on who you listen to, anything up to 7 places are up for sale at the moment.

It is unclear at the moment exactly what the NPPL's view is on the selling of spots - we've heard of four team owners making tentative enquiries to buy from various teams, but nothing hard and fast yet.
What 7 spots??
I have heard (credibly) of only 2.

jeff
 

Robbo

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Jul 5, 2001
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Originally posted by ChuckC
--Robbo

--Robbo

Why is it that these NPPL Pro spots aren't looking secure?

Is the ESPN tv deal looking like a bust for NPPL, as it did for NXL?
The ESPN deal, as far as I know, is looking fine within the terms of that deal.
It's not the break-open deal that we all have hoped would hit Paintball but it's obviously a start and frikkin good luck to everybody concerned.

There are other reasons why the NPPL pro spots are not as secure as before and these have to do with the political landscape changing in that the PSP and Millennium have effectively joined forces and assumed a position inside a World Federation albeit in its birthing phase.
The common format that is more than likely gonna be adopted by this new union is also directly confrontational with the 7 man being used by the NPPL.
And secondly, the list of sponsors and their financial input to the NPPL is gonna contract because of the drastic downturn in the US market.
These two factors alone are the main reason I suggested might not make the NPPL as secure as it was last year, nothing more.
 

Ironpanther

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Dec 19, 2005
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Originally posted by Robbo
As I said in another post, I think 7 man looks somewhat vulnerable at the moment and until things begin to firm up,
Robbo I too am curious as to why you say this. From my point of view I would be a bit more worried about NXL and PSP then I would about NPPL.

From where I stand the PSP is in the most precarious position of the three in that they have raised their entry and event count while changing their format and only releasing a tentative schedule where their first event isn't even locked down yet and is only two months away. With all these changes they announced they still aven't adressed core issues within their league such as players reffereeing and quality venues. Not to mention if you look closely it seems they may have lost their best venue at Disney(World cup doesn't have a location announced). Lastly with all this they still managed to schedule the two summer events only six weeks apart

NPPL on the other hand seems a solid investment in that they aren't making, or at least haven't announced as of yet, major changes to their program for the year. They have quality venues, a somewhat better refferee program, and are working on a solid foundation of growth and clear communication to teams involved. NPPL venues have been drawing better crowds then PSP and already have multiple affiliated leagues that feed into their most basic customer base which is the div 2 and div 3 ranks. All this and it still costs less then PSP.

I don't know about you but I was at Pomona last year as a refferee and saw the headache caused by the sudden and vague rule changes. I saw just how off the beaten path the venue was, and even though I did the best I could as a ref I heard and witnessed refferees that I wouldn't have paid for in a local tournament.

Compared to HB last year or any of the other NPPL events I really do not see where you could sugest 7 man looks vulnerable.
 

Robbo

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Ironpanther, you didn’t have to set up another user name to ask this, I would have accepted it from your other account name ya know :)
Anyways, I will continue :-

When I assess anything, I don't do it superficially, well I try not to and I always try to look at the long dollar situation and not the one in a few months’ time.
I predicted this situation of the PSP and Millennium hook up before it happened and I had NO prior information from anybody as to anything that would lead me to believe it would as Laurent kept that close to himself and I certainly didn't hear anything from the PSP guys, that I swear.
My point here is this, I looked at what was going down and I knew how certain people might react in the light of recent failures to integrate and based my prediction on what I knew, which is exactly what I am doing now.

These are what I see as significant details :-

When I used the word ‘vulnerable’ I was looking at the long dollar situation and the time line I am referring to is the 3 to 5 year slot.
Things could of course take a turn inside that time line but for the purposes of this assessment, that was what I was working to.

One of the Holy Grails of Paintball was the New World Order; it was what the NPPL had been working toward for these past few years.
Chuck’s world wide registration scheme wasn’t just a significant income stream; it was the spine that would give structure and support to this new world order.
I believe the PSP and Millennium have got there first, now I know it could all fall apart tomorrow because it is in its very early pauses but what is undeniable, they are there, they have laid the foundations albeit tentatively.

That said, I believe there is a possibility now that it will become the world standard paintball organization because it has the most important feature of all, the union between Europe’s premier tournament circuit and one of the US’s premier circuits.

As I said before, it never mattered in world terms whether it was the NPPL or PSP who aligned with the Millennium, the rest of the world wouldn’t give a **** but the ultimate validation would always be the union itself.

And thus, it has created an initial momentum that if managed properly, can possibly create this new world order.
As a consequence of that, whatever format is being used by the Millennium / PSP union i.e. XBall 5 man lite, will then become the new world standard.

But, as has been mentioned, there are problems because the track record of the PSP in promoting tourneys isn’t a distinguished one especially when racked up against those of the NPPL’s.
But if we are to assess this properly, we need to factor in some recent changes that the PSP have undergone and also the reason they promote tournaments in the first place.
I factored them in and I believe they will promote tournaments more professionally.
There are many things going on in the background to this one as I am sure you already know and some of these are quite significant when looking at how things unfold.

And so, the reason I say 7 man looks vulnerable is because, with the establishment of this new world order, with the revitalization of the PSP’s attitude toward promotion, with the rearrangements they have made in making Lane the top dog and so on.
I believe the new 5 man format looks stronger.
As you well know, or should do, 7 man as played in the NPPL sucks, I have watched the Sunday club unfold many times in the NPPL and we got no chance if that is to be aired as our TV saviour.
It is a sedentary game, with about as much action going on as a vicar’s tea party.
Teams like Dynasty and XSV, two of the best teams in the world run out to their bunkers and sit there, and sit there, and sit there…….a few bodies walk toward the dead zone and then we might start to see some movement, hardly the stuff of good ratings.
XBall is explosive, XBall is great to play and to spectatae, XBall is easily assimilated into the American’s understanding of sports and so on.

The 7 man format as is, is second best; the NPPL’s isolation from the World Federation isn’t the best thing in my opinion.
The NPPL’s decision making structure isn’t in my opinion single minded enough, as I have said many times before, if Ged could make decisions without having to reference other people, then I am damned sure paintball as a whole would be in a much better position as you well know.
These factors are what I think make 7 man look vulnerable in a relative sense in the mid to long term., nothing more.

And just to make things CLEAR, I am in nobody’s pocket, never have been, never will.
The NPPL never done one thing for me all the time I was their greatest advocate, in fact, I was **** on twice by some members of the NPPL but I still maintained my support for them because I truly believed in what they were trying to do, and still do.

It’s amazing just how fickle some are, if I write things on here or in the magazine that supports a certain faction, then that certain faction describe me as intelligent and insightful (not my words) and so on, but as soon as I disagree with anything they are doing, then the accusations of bias and idiot thinking come to the fore and yet….all I have ever done is speak what I believe to be the truth of the matter.
So go pick the bones outa that one.

As for the PSP / Millennium tie up and my positive comments on this?
I have ALWAYS maintained that we strive toward a New World Order with a common format and rule book etc, it is NOT my fault this didn’t happen with the NPPL, in fact, I gave my advice many times to certain people but it was ignored.
We reap what we sew guys………
 

Ironpanther

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I thought I already had an account but couldn't remember.

Anyways thank you for clarifying your comment. I fully understand your position and have to pose the question do enough teams believe as you do? Funding a pro team is no easy task and with the price tag for each event rising, as PSP has done, will it be seen as a profitable endeavour to even enter in the first place? You have been very vocal about the drop in sponsorship dollars trend and so do you think that sponsors will want to foot the extra bill on the belief that the format and unification will bring big out of industry money when their is already steady positive progress in that direction shown by the competition? The Gardners, Mr. Italia, and Mr. Dehann have all done that once already with the NXL. Sure wouldn't seem smart business to throw money at an organization, reorganized, unified, or whatever, that has a track record of poor or too slow execution.

Now this may all be sounding like I am a stolid Pure Promotions/NPPL supporter but honestly I am right with you in that I believe that the xball format is the more exciting of the two. I am just trying to weigh the prior track record of each league with what they are asking and proposing for the coming year. I see a huge issue arrising from the increase in event costs. Less teams will attend because they can't afford to travel and foot the paint and entry bill. This can hurt vendors with decreases in customer traffic. Less traffic, less sales, less reason to invest in a league if a profit isn't to be realized. Why should outside money be invested in a league that can't even draw investments within it's own industry? With a loss of vendor money coming into the league there is that much less capitol the league and now federation will have to fund developing new programs, acquiring better venues, and in the end maintaining/improving their own equipment.

All in all I think it may boil down to this. NPPL is two years ahead of PSP in laying down working systems and establishing a customer base. While PSP tagged along, living on the coattails of NXL, waiting for the big payoff that would catapult them ahead; NPPL, at an initial loss, began adressing essential issues and establishing working systems and track record of puting on a good show. Yes, I agree they don't have the format quite right for full audience enjoyment, but what they do have is the luxury of time. They already have their customer base established. They have their systems for securing, promoting, and execution of events established. They have the flexibility to use hard surface venues. And they have the "independant" (it sure isn't perfect but it is far better then anything else offered) ref program established. So, while the PSP and Millenium still work out the kinks of whatever format they play, find better refs, trie to establish a decent customer base(more of a psp problem), and as always work on finding proper venues, NPPL has that time to focus on fine tuning their format because they already have the basics down.

Also robbo what is so different this time around between the PSP and Millenium that wasn't there in 2003 between NPPL and Millenium? Why do you believe that this partnership will work any better this time around?