Inconsistencies in Toulouse....

[gaff]

Re: Hi Steve

Originally posted by Wadidiz
Thanks. We'll have that in place for Madrid.

Steve the guns aint gonna be a problem in Madrid mate cos if it takes 30mins to get through the chrony the guns will have melted internally and catapults will be required!

 

[Claudio]

I say we try to stop the guns that are a little over the line (real bounce) before the game and before penalties. Then, if someone is caught during a game, it is confirmed by a second judge following generally the same procedure. If the team's captain so requests.

Uh…. Please can anyone explain-me the difference between a bounce and a real bounce ??

I’m really getting lost in this discussion. I would like to have the knowledge of Nick Truter to get my gun fixed and be sure that my E-Blade does not bounce, but Im not Nick Truter, I don’t know who Nick Truter is, he is not my neighbor and I think he will pissed off if everyone come to him to get his E-blade fixed all the time.
As a player (Sorry I’m just a player and not a tech, please forgive me) I would like to know is my gun is legal or not, I cannot made it bounce as no one of the previous 12 “Judge Testers” before the finals.


Shall we consider that my gun is an illegal gun because it bounced one time but past successfully the others 12 tests?
Is my gun illegal or the judges that performed the previous 12 tests does not know how to perform the test?

I'm listening to any and all suggestions about how we can make everyone happy and still keep our very important gun rules.

I would like to help, but until today Im not really sure what kind of bounce the judges are looking for… Or at least what’s a bounce!
It’s a burst of 2 balls every 15 balls shoot, during a gun test of 2 minutes considered as a bounce that could get me banned?
Because if that’s is the ‘real-bounce’ I better change my E-cocker for another gun !
Are those 2 extra balls shoot when the judge is REALLY looking for a bounce that is a ‘real-bounce’ ?

Because if that is bounce, yes my gun bounces, but only when you spends at least one minute to find the fire point somewhere in the between the trigger course!
Because once you find the fire point the kick of the cocker will made your gun move and shot another ball. But my gun never did some kind of full auto.

 

[camsmith]

Nick (and anyone else who's interested),

I have issues with most of those points (and would be happy to email them), however they are a good starting point for a Rules Committee. It should not be up to the public to decide exactly what the rules are (although suggestions are generally better than unconstructive complaints).

As mentioned earlier, this rules committee should meet once a year (except where special circumstances dictate) to refine/rewrite rules for inclusion as soon as possible. In the case of equipment changes, this may be anywhere up to a year to give manufacturers and players time to catch up with the rules.

Steve, I think 2010 is unrealistic (what markers were being used in 1998?), but 2006 should not be. The first step is to have the rules defined in such a way that both marshalls and players know the testing procedure well before a tournament start date, and players can therefore set their markers up with that margin of error you speak of.

If there is no clearly defined line, then how are you sure that you have included enough safety margin?

 

[John C]

The contact bounce on identical switches can differ by up to 100%. Thats the same make of switch in the same batch.

The next batch may differ again by another 100%. I dont see how you can compensate for that.



Thats contact bounce taken care of

On to Mechanical bounce:

If you intend to provide boundaries for the characteristics of switch (or optical sensor or hall effect sensor) then you must also provide boundaries for the characteristics of the marker itself.

These include the mass of the marker and tank. The mass of the firing mass including the paintball, the acceleration of the firing mass, the distance it needs to travel and of course the mass of the trigger.

Otherwise different marker setups would be more prone to bounce than others, even with an identical, approved switch!

 

[TJ Lambini]

I know I sound like a stuck record, but isn't this going round-and-round in ever decreasing circles just pointing us back towards what tha NXL is doing...

 

[John C]

John C

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
Question:

If the boundries were set the right place - wouldn't the other caracteristics become unimportant ?

Nick

The problem is that certain marker setups are much more prone to bounce than others.

If we are to define limits which eliminate mechanical bounce on all guns then certain ones would be alot less responsive.

Then we dont have the level playing field we all want.

Although I concede it would be no less unfair than it is currently and some set of rules must be layed down, I dont think limiting the weight and travel of the switch is sufficient on its own.

 

[MrDan]

TJ
if we in the uk (and the rest of europe) just 'do what the nxl does' then i believe paintball may be banned here. simple as that.

some of these markers and their bounce are really pushing the limit of the law. It may only take one smart-ass copper to bring us all down - u think im exaggerating, one incident where a police officer has a marker brought to his/her attention which they then 'believe' to be illegal (remember all the different opinions of refs as to which markers bounce?) er would mean them coming down hard on every baller in the country! Remember the EU were trying to ban paintball in Germany?

It will be a lot harder to bring all those deemed outside the law back in line, especially with all of the anti-gun (yes i know we dont call 'em that) sentiments in our country(they would argue that it would be safer just to ban it, probably) . To me the most sensible thing to do is work out a limit that would be acceptable to the police forces in the strictest country/state in the Millennium/NPPL's so that no-one attending will get into trouble.

the only thing is no-one has managed to answer that yet!

i also believe all markers can be set up not to bounce (maybe not eblades though ;o)). simple solution to me.

 

[TJ Lambini]

But duder, all tha people in tha know (as opposed to Intheno) keep telling me that many of tha Euro tourney markers are illegal anyway...if you got a judge who can make every gun he wants bounce, then they are all illegal...with NXL-style rules least you'll all be illegal on a level playing field.

 

[murat]

Maybe the new E-Blade2 will solve the bouncing issue. They claim it will prevent bouncing %100 and not give up in ROF. If they succeed then other electro markers can find out ways to prevent bouncing and still fire with higher ROF.

 

[MrDan]

yes Tj,
i saw a load of guns get pulled at Toulouse (im presuming the problem is escalating), but the point is this is not acceptable. If we are illegal then we COULD be in the sh*t!

Level playing field would be nice, but once someone needs to decides what bounce is or isnt then we can make some steps towards that.

My point is that someone somewhere needs to take measures now, ie the Millennium series or someone high-up needs to make a decision on behalf of all us 'ballers, hey maybe we could have a vote or something,(what do other people think?) but its best not to get into trouble with the law in the first place. by then it may be too late.

i know im not the sharpest tool in the shed, but i was kinda serious when i said i think its easier just to have your marker not bouncing. whats peoples actual opinions on bounce? im not really into it myself. (i imagine ive just opened myself upto a torrent of abuse there)