Has XSV changed the face of tournament Paintball forever?

[duffistuta]

The other problem may be Rich himself. This guy is smart, has incredible experience, and definitely knows what it takes to win. He runs the team in a very professional way, and I think he aspires to run it even more professionally. The players he has, while talented, may not meet the standards of professionalism that he demands. It could be these issues that force players off the team, as despite their talent, they are more interested in having fun and enjoying the lifestyle of a winning team than actually putting in the effort to stay there.

Anyway, the answer to the thread title would be 'No, I don't think so'

So Telford is finally trying to professionalise what are, for a large part, a bunch of loudmouthed primadonnas (I mean tournament Paintballers in general here, not XSV specifically) who expect the earth for next to nothing in return? Then A - Good on him and B - the answer to the thread would be, absolutely.

If this is the case then I guess the people who want to leave are more interested in having fun than winning and, while there is nothing wrong with that, it does for the first time begin to highlight the line between hobbyists and professional athletes...it will be very funny, I think, watching some of the players who have claimed to want to be 'real' Pros over and above all else begin to shrink away and disappear when they realise what that might actually entail.

 

[Steve Hancock]

Why would someone leave a team that is winning and is paying them?
- They are not prepared to sacrifice the fun, that being an athlete demands.

The culture in paintball is not currently one that develops disciplined athletes. How many players claim they would love the chance to play for Russian Legion? How many do you think could be arsed with it, after a full-time beasting on the track, weights, and field?

What percentage of people who play football would actually bother if they had to work their arse off for it? I'm sure there is a huge number that would, but as a proportion of the whole - a tiny fraction. Most are just the casual kick around type. Why should paintball have a different balance, most of us are the casual type as well. Problem we have is there are far fewer paintballers, and therefore our athletic fraction isn’t big enough to fill our leagues. There is also the fact that we don't have the culture of athleticism that football does, so any athletes we do have get lost in the apathy.

 

[MissyQ]

I agree Duff, but the thread doesn't ask 'Has Telford changed the game?', and by saying XSV, I took that to mean the players themselves, rather than the team entity. I would agree that Telfords approach has changed the way teams are run. I hands-down think he is the smartest captain in the league. If the team played cleaner, I would think they were genuinely a better team than Dynasty. They do run the risk of becoming unpopular in record time, as while the refs are missing some important calls, no-one else appears to be, and so they will not get the same credit for winning as Dynasty get.

I think there are a couple of players on the team that perhaps are not quite the article they think they are, and that in 'grounding' these players Rich might end up just battling their ego's until they up and leave. I don't want to take anything away from the job he has done though.

 

[PSPGeoff]

Thread after thread, post after post it doesnt really matter what you say Missy... the sky is blue Chicago will say its black... the earth is round he will say its flat......

 

[MissyQ]

Yes Geoff, you're right, but people don't challenge the crap he puts out, and then its in danger of being believed.
I wish they would, just so I don't have to.

 

[Chicago]

He is hinting that I have vendetta against XSV due to the HB rage game

For someone who spends so much time complaining about my unattributed quotes, you sure don't have any qualms about putting words into other people's mouths.

I was hinting at no such thing. Your assumption that I would care to keep track of who you may or may not have a vendetta against is a bad one.

I was merely implying that, on he continuum of cheating, Rage is historically on the cheat more side of the continuum, and reductions in reffing quality improves the performance of teams that place more emphasis on pushing the rules.

I did not say that changes in Rage's roster did not have an impact, just that changes in the reffing did, and I still think it's a fair argument that Rage would not be doing as well as they are now were the reffing at NPPL events up to the standards of previous seasons.

 

[MissyQ]

And I am saying that this can be said of every team, as the thread was XSV specific I left it there, but the same refs ref all the teams, and calls have been missed by all. If anything Rage would have done BETTER at the last 2 events had specific calls not been missed. So as usual, I maintain that the opposite of what you claim is actually true. The only teams whos games I watched at both events without fail were Rage and XSV. That is where I am getting my info from. Where are you getting yours?

At what stage does a teams 'historic reputation' influence the decisions it gets on the field anyway? Most of these refs were not even around when Rage earned their reputation, and only one of those rage players is still around (Chino), and he doesn't play more than a couple of games per event.

and its not 'a vendetta' it's just 'vendetta'. No big deal, but seeing as I have to correct everything else you say.....

 

[PSPLane]

people don't challenge the crap he puts out, and then its in danger of being believed.
I wish they would, just so I don't have to.

Don't hold your breath.

I've been waiting for 3 years for someone to step up and challenge some of the things that get "put out".

Even when people knew it was crap, they just didn't have time to bother I guess.

Maybe it's in the packaging. If you wrap it up nice and put a pretty bow on it, people think it's a gift - regardless of whats actually in the box. That could be Chicago's problem, he isn't a very good gift wrapper.

He gives out the same opinionated, one-sided, self serving load of **** as others, he just doesn't do all the window dressing.

 

[Robbo]

For someone who spends so much time complaining about my unattributed quotes, you sure don't have any qualms about putting words into other people's mouths.

I was hinting at no such thing. Your assumption that I would care to keep track of who you may or may not have a vendetta against is a bad one.

I was merely implying that, on he continuum of cheating, Rage is historically on the cheat more side of the continuum, and reductions in reffing quality improves the performance of teams that place more emphasis on pushing the rules.

I did not say that changes in Rage's roster did not have an impact, just that changes in the reffing did, and I still think it's a fair argument that Rage would not be doing as well as they are now were the reffing at NPPL events up to the standards of previous seasons.

Chi Town, I gotta know for my own peace of mind, in your estimation, how many of the teams that play in the NPPL pro div have cheat markers in that they possess designer boards in them?

I know if you ask any of the teams themselves they will all deny it till they are blue in the face but we all know different, but just how many in your opinion cross that line into being cheating ass mofos?

 

[Chicago]

I would say 18 of them. Maybe not the whole team, but it's quite likely that at least one guy on every team has a designer cheat board. Even if the guy running the team thinks his team has all legal boards, how would he know if one of his guys was helping his chances of staying on the team a bit?


Missy, you once again demonstrate a willingness to contort logic to reach conclusions that don't make sense. Yes, the reffing is the same for everyone. You then conclude that since the reffing is the same for everyone, that changes in the reffing would have the same effect on all teams. That is wrong. And again, I find myself wondering if you are just not bright enough to realize that this logic doesn't work, or are that bright and are intentionally abusing logic to make an argument that appears superficially correct when you know it isn't.


Changes in the way sports are played have DIFFERENT affects on DIFFERENT participants, beause not all participants are identical. The fact of the matter is, Pro paintball teams cheat, they all cheat, but they definitely don't do it the same way. Ollie Lang is one of the best cheaters I have ever seen - nobody has the gift Ollie has of taking an official that just saw something, knows what he saw, knows what the correct call is, and has made the correct call, and then making that official BELEIVE that he's made a mistake and let Ollie keep playing. It's a very artful form of cheating that Ollie has mastered.

Most Pro teams just play the standard "I'm probably hit but I'm going to keep playing until a ref comes and pulls me" cheat, as they know they're not likely to get penalized for it. I ain't blaming them for it; what is written down is secondary to what actually happens, and if the refs are going to let you do it, than it is de-facto legal. (To get back to Robbo quickly, I would argue that designer cheat boards are de-facto legal in NPPL - if there's no real penalty for using them, the only person you're hurting by not using them is yourself.)

And then there are teams like Rage, who will proactively run down the field wearing piles of hits trying to cause as much game confusion as possible and use that confusion to their advantage.

Now, the worse the reffing gets, the more that kind of cheating works, and the teams that play that way DISPROPORTIONATELY benefit from the change.

Now, back to the topic at hand, XSV are smart. They will do what will help them win, and if you have been watching XSV this year, you will see that they have been doing a LOT more rage-style cheating, where players get hit, know they are hit, and then will proceed to do whatever is going to create as much game confusion as possible that they can then exploit, because THIS year in NPPL, that is working. They didn't do it so much in the past when it didn't work so well in NPPL and they don't do it very much in NXL either, where it also doesn't work as well (not just due to reffing, but due to format - in 7-man, once the confusion is resolved the game is over and you've won, in XBall, you may have used the confusiion to win the point, but then you're going to get beat up for the next 4 minutes while one or two of your guys are stuck in the box.)


Now, why are we even talking about this? I brought it up because you made the assertion that XSV is one of the dirtiest teams you've ever seen play paintball. I disagree. I think Rage is one of the dirtiest teams to ever play paintball, because they ALWAYS play dirty. Creating game confusion is play #1 in the Rage playbook. And I picked Rage to illustrate the difference between being fundamentally dirty, and being INTELLIGENTLY dirty like XSV. They're playing dirty in NPPL this year because it is working, and any pro team would be dumb to not take any advantage they can. Unlike Rage, who will play dirty whether it's working or not because that's just the way they play. Dirty play is Rage's STYLE, and the decline in reffing favors that style and gives Rage an advantage over prior years. Dirty play isn't XSV's STYLE; they're only playing dirty because the reffing is in a situation where dirty play works well.

Let me put it this way:

If the reffing is sub-par, XSV plays dirty and wins and Rage plays dirty and does better than they would if the reffing were better.
If the reffing is comparatively good, XSV doesn't play dirty and still wins, while Rage still plays dirty and turns in their custom middle-of-the-road performance.

Rage plays dirty because that's what they do. XSV plays dirty because the present state of the reffing virtually demands they play dirty if they want to win.

Is it possible that you are asserting XSV is the dirtiest team ever to distract everyone from realizing that their dirty play is necessitated by the sub-par reffing provided by the league you are apparently closely affiliated with? Is it possibly in any way meant to distract people from realizing that you sponsor one of the historically dirtiest teams in paintball, on AND off the field?