Maybe, or maybe if I'm WDP I think, 'We gave Dynasty $200k over the terms of their sponsorship, then they got to tha top, the market exploded and they left us, and now Smart Parts reaps tha rewards for our early support and financing.'
Has XSV changed the face of tournament Paintball forever?
- Thread starter TJ Lambini
- Start date
I don't know that the same logic that applied to Nike and MLB works with DYE and the NPPL. My guess is that they avoid those investments because they are, simply put, bad investments. Generally speaking, you don't make a lot of money on a professional sports franchise (at least not in the US). You make a lot when you sell it, but that's it.
I am basing this on statements made by Steinbrenner and Robert Kraft and the owners of the Red Sox.
The money is made in the ancillaries. The YES network. The merchandising.
So Nike probably doesn't own a team because they would have to invest too heavily in something they don't controll completely (the NFL's new revenue sharing plan forced the rich teams to subsidize the poor ones) and would take up an tremendous amount of work all of which falls outside their core competency.
In Paintball, the majority of the businesses are run by current or retired players. Running a successful team is their core competency.
Owning a team provides the long term stability and security required in order to justify the amount of money spent (not just on running the team, but marketing it).
I think the WDP-Dynasty example is spot-on. Hundreds of thousands spent to help develop a brand, and it all walked out the door. How can any sponsor put any team in any magaine ad with confidence the team will be around long enough to return on that investment? I would think ownership would be a prerequisite.
I am basing this on statements made by Steinbrenner and Robert Kraft and the owners of the Red Sox.
The money is made in the ancillaries. The YES network. The merchandising.
So Nike probably doesn't own a team because they would have to invest too heavily in something they don't controll completely (the NFL's new revenue sharing plan forced the rich teams to subsidize the poor ones) and would take up an tremendous amount of work all of which falls outside their core competency.
In Paintball, the majority of the businesses are run by current or retired players. Running a successful team is their core competency.
Owning a team provides the long term stability and security required in order to justify the amount of money spent (not just on running the team, but marketing it).
I think the WDP-Dynasty example is spot-on. Hundreds of thousands spent to help develop a brand, and it all walked out the door. How can any sponsor put any team in any magaine ad with confidence the team will be around long enough to return on that investment? I would think ownership would be a prerequisite.
And teams are already mini-brands, and in tha cases of XSV and Dynasty looking to become major brands in their own rights, and manufacturers too. (Inasmuch as most of them are manufacturers - i.e. outsourcing.)
Wow! In less than a page we've gone from a whiff of intrigue and controversy into the safe and boring confines of generic paintball biz. Excuse me while I take a nap.
Although I will say, Maestro, I think there is a significant difference between trying to compete with the Big Boys and co-opting your own identity and popularity via merchandising, etc. (Perhaps you didn't mean more than that when you said manufacturers .. )
How 'bout a pool? Who implodes first, Dynasty or Excessive? Next player to leave, quit, get the boot? Who and which team.
Oh, and while I'm at it we spend a lot of time discussing the financial health of the leagues and the industry but almost none on that of the top teams. For example I could name at least one NXL team that hasn't actually paid an entry fee as of Chicago--but I won't--still, that suggests the same malaise and living on the edge often attributed to chunks of the industry lately also applies to the teams. My question is this then--Are the teams in any better shape than anyone else?
Although I will say, Maestro, I think there is a significant difference between trying to compete with the Big Boys and co-opting your own identity and popularity via merchandising, etc. (Perhaps you didn't mean more than that when you said manufacturers .. )
How 'bout a pool? Who implodes first, Dynasty or Excessive? Next player to leave, quit, get the boot? Who and which team.
Oh, and while I'm at it we spend a lot of time discussing the financial health of the leagues and the industry but almost none on that of the top teams. For example I could name at least one NXL team that hasn't actually paid an entry fee as of Chicago--but I won't--still, that suggests the same malaise and living on the edge often attributed to chunks of the industry lately also applies to the teams. My question is this then--Are the teams in any better shape than anyone else?
OK, back to XSV - there are persistent rumors that JR quit recently but was 'bought' back, and that others are looking to leave. Why leave the world's best team if you're winning, playing and getting paid? What's going on there?
Do pro players play for money / glory / chicks or for having fun and then the money / glory / chicks?TJ Lambini said:
Plus, if all the teams are moving in the XSV direction then you can leave and try to be the Telford of some other team. I guess in the end it's all a question of how big your ego is
I think it will be the refs that are the undoing of XSV, and they will be the 'team' that stops their winning run.
I have nothing against XSV, I know and like most of their players, and I like that fact that Dynasty are not getting it all their own way this season, but I would definitely say that they are the dirtiest Pro team I have ever seen play.
Rich works every possible angle with the officials, and his experience is definitely telling in this area.
I think they will start losing games once the standard of reffing is upped and they start getting some of the 141's 241's and 341's that they have been missing all season long. If you remove the unbelievable breaks these guys have had from Refs missing calls that seemed obvious to me and every other spectator, then I would go on record and say they would certainly not have won HB OR Tampa, and right now we would be talking about how open the league is this year. I was not in Chicago so I don't know how they crafted that result.
The other problem may be Rich himself. This guy is smart, has incredible experience, and definitely knows what it takes to win. He runs the team in a very professional way, and I think he aspires to run it even more professionally. The players he has, while talented, may not meet the standards of professionalism that he demands. It could be these issues that force players off the team, as despite their talent, they are more interested in having fun and enjoying the lifestyle of a winning team than actually putting in the effort to stay there.
Anyway, the answer to the thread title would be 'No, I don't think so'
I have nothing against XSV, I know and like most of their players, and I like that fact that Dynasty are not getting it all their own way this season, but I would definitely say that they are the dirtiest Pro team I have ever seen play.
Rich works every possible angle with the officials, and his experience is definitely telling in this area.
I think they will start losing games once the standard of reffing is upped and they start getting some of the 141's 241's and 341's that they have been missing all season long. If you remove the unbelievable breaks these guys have had from Refs missing calls that seemed obvious to me and every other spectator, then I would go on record and say they would certainly not have won HB OR Tampa, and right now we would be talking about how open the league is this year. I was not in Chicago so I don't know how they crafted that result.
The other problem may be Rich himself. This guy is smart, has incredible experience, and definitely knows what it takes to win. He runs the team in a very professional way, and I think he aspires to run it even more professionally. The players he has, while talented, may not meet the standards of professionalism that he demands. It could be these issues that force players off the team, as despite their talent, they are more interested in having fun and enjoying the lifestyle of a winning team than actually putting in the effort to stay there.
Anyway, the answer to the thread title would be 'No, I don't think so'
Maybe the team is just good enough to cheat their asses off where they can get away with it and reign it in where they can't. Playing the officials is part of any sport, although unfortunately moreso in paintball.MissyQ said:
If you are a great team, you will win with proper officiating. And you will have to cheat when the officials are bad to prevent your advantage from being overcome by other teams cheating.
If XSV didn't play dirty in NPPL, they'd just be letting Rage have a shot at beating them. It's not a coincidence that the reffing has been getting worse and Rage has been performing 'better'.
I think Rage's improvement has more to do with the players they picked up in the last year, like Kenny, Ziggy and Travis.Chicago said:
Could the quality of reffing have something to do with Rage's improvement? Yes, it could. But since every other team is getting the same quality of reffing, I find it diffucult to believe that Rage is the only team to really take advantage of this. Or are you implying that Rage is the only team that cheats?
He's just being ridiculous Shamu, of course Rage have improved because of their players. He is hinting that I have vendetta against XSV due to the HB rage game, and he is wrong, as per usual. Chicago, you really need to wise up a bit. At least have a bit of credence in your theories. The 'point' you make below about Rage is a very unfair and uneducated statement to make. It doesn't mae sense on any level. Shamu has made you look stupid, and to be honest, you did the job for him by writing your drivel and then not thinking it through.
I stand by my post because it makes sense that that's where XSV will come unstuck.
I stand by my post because it makes sense that that's where XSV will come unstuck.