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Enforcing the rules and unsportsmanlike conduct

kim1

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Jul 5, 2002
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Originally posted by Wadidiz
Rules are made for people, not people for the rules.

Example: spray on goggle, among other things.

Steve
That was a brilliant guideline! For sure! That's something that could be spread to others! I've seen many unfortunate calls where some player gets hit on the hopper and have no idea about it and get 1-4-1:d. On sup'air fields the spray from bunkers are minimal - could and should be implemented more!
 
Woh! Interesting thread

Steve,

As you tell it, you did exaclty the correct thing (not that I am accusing you of anything, I am just aware that there are sometimes two sides to a story).

As somebody has already said, players and officals don't always mx well off the field if there is controvesy. I cannot help thinking about David Ellary (Soccer Ref in the UK) and his realtionship to certain Premiership players, and clubs. This reputation withstanding, he was elected by the FA to be the Uk's Ref at the 98 world cup (which he pulled out of for other reasons, for anyone who knows/cares that he wasn't actually the UK ref at France 98).

On that whole issue I was really interested to read the Chris Lasoya interview in the October issue of PGI:

-that [the x-ball judging] was the best judging I have ever had in my entire life. It didn't matter who you were. They pulled penalties on me all the time, where in other situations I might have got away with whatever it was.
PGI October 02 page 71

Very interesting IMO. Not that I want to have (another) go at Chris, just that cheating as I would call it is that acceptable (to at least try it on). I have to agree with Buhdda 3, harsh penalties, that are enforced, would go a long way to sorting things out.

Pro refs (or PRO if you like, why have people started typing it all in caps?) would be great, but its not a job I'd want to do.

Richard
 

Wadidiz

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Keep in mind we're all going to make mistakes no matter how good we are. The judging team I was on at the last Joy Masters was praised for having the best judging at an event that was universally praised for having some of the best reffing ever. But still I was involved in 2 flubbs (out of over 100 games), one of which cost a team the game and may have cost that team their chance to move to the semi-finals.
 

Wadidiz

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Woh! Interesting thread

Originally posted by Richard Kirke (DUPS Rocket) UK


Pro refs (or PRO if you like, why have people started typing it all in caps?) would be great, but its not a job I'd want to do.

Richard
PRO = Professional Reffing Organization. Sponsored by NPPL, PSP and WDP. I was talking to Jonathan Green of WDP who said they wish the other sponsors who promised to support PRO would step up to bat. The organization is sorely needed!

Steve
 

kim1

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Originally posted by raehl
My problem with the original post is I'm sick of players blaming everyone else but totally ignoring how their own behavior contributes to the situation.

I'm not saying you should have been one for oned for a hit on the pack. I'm saying that by shooting a player who was already obviously eliminated your behavior made getting the penalty possible - and even if you shouldn't have been one-for-oned for the pack hit, you should have been for shooting the eliminated player. Those extra shots did nothing to help your team win the game, but did end up costing you - your fault, not the refs, even if the ref assessed the right penalty for the wrong reason. You made a bad decision, plain and simple.

Now, the player you shot definitely should have been one-for-oned as well, but its the refs job to asses that penalty, not your job to do it by lighting him up in the back.

As for the talking, the way you wrote it made it seem like you were talking during the game because you didn't move the timeframe until after the game until when you were throwing your pack. My bad for reading that the wrong way - but still - don't throw stuff anywhere near refs, or direct the F word at them. Again, your behavior contributing to the problem.


I realize that what you did and what the other guy did appear totally normal to a lot of people who read these boards, but that perspective needs to be changed. There's unfortunately years of "paintball culture" that's been built up that's just bad news. It's not surprising that it's been allowed to get this far since the vast majority of people were concerned merely about winning whatever event they were playing, but its totally counterproductive if you're thinking about pulling hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars in avertising and ticket sales.

Refs need to be better and more consistent, but players have to start playing a little more paintball and doing a little less of the vendetta and "I'm a bigger man than you are" BS too.


- Chris
I agree with you. By me "securing" the guy I kind of took the risk of getting penalized. I had my reasons. The judges were not on the case when they didn't pick him out straight away when I painted him when he turned up at my bunker and run passed. My real motive was to make sure the judges would see hits on him before he reach my team-mate in order to take him out (he was not going to stop his run unless!). I shold have had the judges to sort things out. But the judge making the checks were at that point between me and the runner making front checks quite impossible - hits in the back he'd surely see.

And I don't want to blame anyone! I live for the game not the fuss.

Sorry for not precising the time for the 'talking', it was not my intention to be unclear about it. It was not very smart to throw the pack but if he'd bothered to check he would have seen that the hit was right on the middle of the pack - the Attack Pack is quite solid, thick and have a support pillow, add the empty bulk straps and I'd like to see the player that "feels" a hit there =) ...I've never 1-4-1 someone getting a hit in the pack and I will not ever do it either.

And a goal should be to get judges to make consistent decisions. How - that's the issue...!
 
I would have to say that while its agood idea to train PRO reffs
the main problem is they will not have the experience that comes with playing the game. I have said this before in an other thread what we need is the expeienced players who have retiered to
step up and become coaches and reffs. These people know all or most of the grey areas that are being pushed and they also know what is splatter and what is not. They also know what to look for as in diversions and misdirection either to diguise hits or simply to create confusion on the field to cover others. Then the only other problem would be thier moral conviction and intestinal fortitude, would they have the guts,balls or whatever to make a call on a friend or former team mate. Personally I have no problem with this, when I play im a player, when I reff that is entirerly different, even if I know you I will not reffer to you byname, you are a player and I will judge you the same as everyone else.
 
R

raehl

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So are you saying...

that people can't ref the NFL unless they'veplayed?

frankly, I'd much rahter have a ref who has had good training on how to be a ref than a ref who was a good player. They're too different animals.

- Chris
 

Buddha 3

Hamfist McPunchalot
Word of advice: Keep it clean and decent guys. This is an interesting thread, and it would be a shame if I or one of the other mods had to do some deleting because of language.

Anyway, some of the points raised in here I agree with, some of them I don't. I don't see why refs have to be ex players per se. Trained individuals can do (and in a lot of sports indeed do) the job nicely. However, finding enough people outside of tournament ball willing to take the job is a whole different deal altogether. I do think that PRO is the way forward. Does anybody know if this organisation has enough people in the pipeline to do the task in the future? And by that I mean if they will have enough refs to be able to do an entire event without help from existing teams?

About the playing on/backpack hit. If the guy is playing on after he was obviously hit, but no ref is moving to take his armband away and he doesn't seem to be sticking his hand in the air, then he is still in the game, thereby justifying being shot at. That still doesn't mean it's a nice thing to do, but those who play nice, don't win championships (and by that I don't mean that you have to cheat, but that you need to play all out and not hold back).
 

Kevin

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Apr 12, 2002
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A very well known team showed misconduct towards my team this weekend, I won`t go into details as it has been resolved, but the team has beened banned from the series and their sponsor said all will be done to punish the offending player by suggesting his removal from the team, we were also promised their paint sponsorship will suffer due to the offense.

Good stuff !