Well, I heard it from this kid at my local paintball field, and he's been right at least twice before. He said he read it on the internet. It has to be true if it's on the internet, right?
Do Your Part to Help Reunification
- Thread starter Baca Loco
- Start date
I'm going to take this in a different direction...
my issues with reunification stem from a deep and personal knowledge of the power mongers involved.
In my humble opinion, it breaks down into two distinct camps:
on the one hand, you have a camp that has demonstrated through visible actions that they are attempting to provide paintball with the underpinnings it needs in order to gain wider exposure and legitimacy; standardization of events, teams, players, steady, incremental development of the 'governing body' aspect, 'arms-length' management of a sport. Yes, this particular camp is about maintaining their supremacy and controlling their assets, but they seem to have recognized one fundamental aspect of operating an international sporting organization, and that is that control stems from providing people and companies what they want (incentives to participate) and that it is not necessary to sit on every single decision, every single dollar or to fix things for political, monetary or market-share gain. In fact, doing so is detrimental to fostering the inclusiveness and growth necessary for success.
on the other hand, you have a camp which has CLEARLY demonstrated over years gone past (two decades, literally, in some cases) that they seek power and control, not because a single message and focus is necessary for success, but so that they can control the dollars and the market. they have consistently demonstrated, through personal and business actions, that they firmly believe that it is possible to control the entire industry for their own personal gain, and that anything else they may appear to do is paying temporary lipservice for a political advantage.
this camp is only seeming interested in reunification because their own ship is sinking and they're looking for a new ride. promises they make, agreements they come to are only viewed as temporary inconveniances until they can once again worm there way back to grabbing the reins of power.
I do not for one minute believe that the folks in the white hat camp will be capable of controlling the black hat camp once they are let into the door.
The tools they use are character assassination, back-stabbing and holding out very large, shiny carrots that temporarily blind otherwise intelligent individuals into stupidity.
I don't say this to imply that the white hat gang is easily swayed or manipulated - merely to point out that the black hat crew are VERY, VERY experienced at what they do; they've built several large companies on the back of such tactics, they've managed to stay in the game since the middle 80's using such tactics and, to my mind, it is a foregone conclusion that in as little as two years following reunification - regardless of how the deal is cut - they will be running the show into the ground once again, for one good and solid reason:
taking the sport outside the immediate industry is detrimental to their goal of market domination. they do NOT want major corporations, over which they have no control and can't have any monetary influence, involved, because it will put them in a lesser control position.
unfortunately, it looks like the carrot is shining very brightly these days...
my issues with reunification stem from a deep and personal knowledge of the power mongers involved.
In my humble opinion, it breaks down into two distinct camps:
on the one hand, you have a camp that has demonstrated through visible actions that they are attempting to provide paintball with the underpinnings it needs in order to gain wider exposure and legitimacy; standardization of events, teams, players, steady, incremental development of the 'governing body' aspect, 'arms-length' management of a sport. Yes, this particular camp is about maintaining their supremacy and controlling their assets, but they seem to have recognized one fundamental aspect of operating an international sporting organization, and that is that control stems from providing people and companies what they want (incentives to participate) and that it is not necessary to sit on every single decision, every single dollar or to fix things for political, monetary or market-share gain. In fact, doing so is detrimental to fostering the inclusiveness and growth necessary for success.
on the other hand, you have a camp which has CLEARLY demonstrated over years gone past (two decades, literally, in some cases) that they seek power and control, not because a single message and focus is necessary for success, but so that they can control the dollars and the market. they have consistently demonstrated, through personal and business actions, that they firmly believe that it is possible to control the entire industry for their own personal gain, and that anything else they may appear to do is paying temporary lipservice for a political advantage.
this camp is only seeming interested in reunification because their own ship is sinking and they're looking for a new ride. promises they make, agreements they come to are only viewed as temporary inconveniances until they can once again worm there way back to grabbing the reins of power.
I do not for one minute believe that the folks in the white hat camp will be capable of controlling the black hat camp once they are let into the door.
The tools they use are character assassination, back-stabbing and holding out very large, shiny carrots that temporarily blind otherwise intelligent individuals into stupidity.
I don't say this to imply that the white hat gang is easily swayed or manipulated - merely to point out that the black hat crew are VERY, VERY experienced at what they do; they've built several large companies on the back of such tactics, they've managed to stay in the game since the middle 80's using such tactics and, to my mind, it is a foregone conclusion that in as little as two years following reunification - regardless of how the deal is cut - they will be running the show into the ground once again, for one good and solid reason:
taking the sport outside the immediate industry is detrimental to their goal of market domination. they do NOT want major corporations, over which they have no control and can't have any monetary influence, involved, because it will put them in a lesser control position.
unfortunately, it looks like the carrot is shining very brightly these days...
Steve:
Black and white (hats or whatever) is really a tried old horse by now - it's nearly flogged to death
It would do damage to the respect you enjoy, if you try and paint one camp entirely black and the other white - because everyone knows that is not the truth - except maybe to you - because you got ousted waaaay back in the old days... by people in the "black" camp.
I think everyone is pretty clear on what the NPPL does best and what the PSP/NXL does best.
I have the greatest respect for PP and WDP and what they have done for the sport... but riddle me this:
What happens when some mulitinational company succeeds in buying WDP and PP?
Do you really want the sport controlled by one company with less emotional attachment to the sport than what the good people at WDP have today?
Unification is good - but only if the terms are right for the SPORT - short and long term.... otherwise we are better off ith two entities fighting eachother IMHO.
Nick
Black and white (hats or whatever) is really a tried old horse by now - it's nearly flogged to death
It would do damage to the respect you enjoy, if you try and paint one camp entirely black and the other white - because everyone knows that is not the truth - except maybe to you - because you got ousted waaaay back in the old days... by people in the "black" camp.
I think everyone is pretty clear on what the NPPL does best and what the PSP/NXL does best.
I have the greatest respect for PP and WDP and what they have done for the sport... but riddle me this:
What happens when some mulitinational company succeeds in buying WDP and PP?
Do you really want the sport controlled by one company with less emotional attachment to the sport than what the good people at WDP have today?
Unification is good - but only if the terms are right for the SPORT - short and long term.... otherwise we are better off ith two entities fighting eachother IMHO.
Nick
Whoa Steve...
Are you trying to imply hat the PP promotions folks have some sort of international sporting body in mind? You're kidding me, right?
Paintball sort of used ot have a player's organization - which Chuck more or less stole, a theft validated by PP. (Not that I'm that bitter about it, given the total lack of ability for players to separate themselves from the industry anyway.)
Nick's right here - I just don't see how you can call one group any more or less greedy than the other group.
Are you trying to imply hat the PP promotions folks have some sort of international sporting body in mind? You're kidding me, right?
Paintball sort of used ot have a player's organization - which Chuck more or less stole, a theft validated by PP. (Not that I'm that bitter about it, given the total lack of ability for players to separate themselves from the industry anyway.)
Nick's right here - I just don't see how you can call one group any more or less greedy than the other group.
Nick,
I used the analogy after trying to give due credence to the fact that NEITHER camp is run from a 'players control everything' point of view. (Not that I'm advocating such a thing - I'm not.)
Allow me to set the record straight: I was not 'ousted': I ran a very successfull anti-black hat campaign for four years, with little money and very little PUBLIC support. Had I chosen to put myself ahead of what I perceived the best interests of the organization to be, the split would have occurred in 1997, with the majority of the vendors walking out of the World Cup with me (translates into sponsors): They were outraged at the time that the team I played for had been told that unless they removed me from their roster, 'they would not make it to the semi-finals'. The team took a vote and stuck with me. The sponsors sent a delegation to me, stating their support and their willingness to 'shut the event down' in protest. I made the choice (perhaps mistaken) to not allow my issues to affect my friends' businesses or careers and voluntarily removed myself from the roster.
The previous year, I WON the 'recall Steve as Secretary' vote, after enduring one of the worst attempts at character assassination ever visited upon a single paintballer in the history of this game. The 'file' on my supposed activities provided by others to Tom Cole (then President) was easily over an inch thick. Unsubstantiated charges and accusations which I was never allowed to see or respond to UNTIL the actual meeting. (Even though the rest of the executive body had been furnished with copies.)
But I won the vote and remained Secretary. Following the conclusion of the '96 season, I sent a formal letter of resignation to Tom. That was only after I had concluded that while I could continue to (successfully) throw monkeywrenches into the equation, I and others wouyld be better served by going our own way.
Chicago - Chuck did not STEAL anything. Chuck was the last remaining elected official of the original NPPL. As such, he was empowered by the By-Laws of the organization to take temporary control and manage things until such time as elections could be held.
In terms of parlimentary procedure, 'until such time' is very open ended and, if someone wanted to agitate for elections now, they might have an argument, but the counter argument would be equally valid, that being that things still need to be straightened out and etc.
You can not properly put the word 'stole' on what Chuck did. He was the legitimate heir to the organization and is well-within the by-laws of the original org with what he is doing now.
History is written by the victors, but there's no 'winner' yet, so I'd appreciate it if we keep the facts straight until that history is written.
Back to the topic: okay - forget white and black hats. How about red and green? To my mind, one camp remains closed, manipulative and predatory. The other camp is marginally open, manipulative and opportunistic. I'd rather go with marginally open than with closed.
My main point was my belief that the predators are going to eat the opportunists' lunch if they ever sit down together.
I used the analogy after trying to give due credence to the fact that NEITHER camp is run from a 'players control everything' point of view. (Not that I'm advocating such a thing - I'm not.)
Allow me to set the record straight: I was not 'ousted': I ran a very successfull anti-black hat campaign for four years, with little money and very little PUBLIC support. Had I chosen to put myself ahead of what I perceived the best interests of the organization to be, the split would have occurred in 1997, with the majority of the vendors walking out of the World Cup with me (translates into sponsors): They were outraged at the time that the team I played for had been told that unless they removed me from their roster, 'they would not make it to the semi-finals'. The team took a vote and stuck with me. The sponsors sent a delegation to me, stating their support and their willingness to 'shut the event down' in protest. I made the choice (perhaps mistaken) to not allow my issues to affect my friends' businesses or careers and voluntarily removed myself from the roster.
The previous year, I WON the 'recall Steve as Secretary' vote, after enduring one of the worst attempts at character assassination ever visited upon a single paintballer in the history of this game. The 'file' on my supposed activities provided by others to Tom Cole (then President) was easily over an inch thick. Unsubstantiated charges and accusations which I was never allowed to see or respond to UNTIL the actual meeting. (Even though the rest of the executive body had been furnished with copies.)
But I won the vote and remained Secretary. Following the conclusion of the '96 season, I sent a formal letter of resignation to Tom. That was only after I had concluded that while I could continue to (successfully) throw monkeywrenches into the equation, I and others wouyld be better served by going our own way.
Chicago - Chuck did not STEAL anything. Chuck was the last remaining elected official of the original NPPL. As such, he was empowered by the By-Laws of the organization to take temporary control and manage things until such time as elections could be held.
In terms of parlimentary procedure, 'until such time' is very open ended and, if someone wanted to agitate for elections now, they might have an argument, but the counter argument would be equally valid, that being that things still need to be straightened out and etc.
You can not properly put the word 'stole' on what Chuck did. He was the legitimate heir to the organization and is well-within the by-laws of the original org with what he is doing now.
History is written by the victors, but there's no 'winner' yet, so I'd appreciate it if we keep the facts straight until that history is written.
Back to the topic: okay - forget white and black hats. How about red and green? To my mind, one camp remains closed, manipulative and predatory. The other camp is marginally open, manipulative and opportunistic. I'd rather go with marginally open than with closed.
My main point was my belief that the predators are going to eat the opportunists' lunch if they ever sit down together.
Steve, explaining why Chicago should not blurt out inaccurate and sometimes fantasy information like its actually true is an arduous task. In his mind his opinion IS truth, and I just want to thank you for you help in making him recognise the difference.
Keep the faith.
Keep the faith.
1--Missy, I am amazed you do not find anything offensive in that characterization. I have often suggested a similar view which you have almost always objected to vigorously. Is it just me or is SteveD your "special friend"?
* apologies to SteveD.
2--Steve, do you really imagine there will EVER be any elections in Chuck's NPPL? Seriously, do you? 3 years out and no hint yet.
Surely you jest?
Is there a provision in the NPPL bylaws that says "The President can decide to not have elections"? Is there a provision that says "The President can set whatever salary for himself he chooses"? Were NPPL still incorporated, this kind of thing would be illegal by state law. (Of course, sinc epeople let that go away, you're in much murky legal waters.)
If you had a democracy, and the current president cancelled elections, and three years later there still were no elections, while the President continued to tax teh tax money for himself, you'd call it what it is: A coup.
I'm not saying NPPL *SHOULD* have elections, or SHOULD be a player's league, but can we stop pretending that it is, or that we got here by any means other than the players being too lazy to do anything about Chuck turning what USED to be a player's organization into his own personal paycheck?
Does anyone have any reasonable expectaton that if NPPL were to secure some sort of TV/advertising deal that that money would go anywhere other than in Chuck's pocket? That the participants in NPPL would get any oversight into it whatsoever?
If you have a body that is supposed to have elected officers, and you stop having elections while still charging for "memberships", that's stealing. I just don't see any other way of cutting it. That anyone can object to that characerization makes it pretty obvious that you guys are just mindless fanboys. NPPL is exactly as closed as PSP; the only difference is NPPPL trys to pretend they're not.
Loco,
nothing to do with Steve D at all. I was just pointing out that Chicago likes to use sensationalist untruths like 'CHUCK STEALS!!!' and uses them in his posts to indicate he is telling the truth. Of course he isn't and I know that, but there are people who come on here that might believe him. That is my fundamental problem with the guy. He lies. His opinions are nearly always pretty right on IMO and he is clearly a clever guy, but he does not take responsibility for what he says. His untruths may do damage to people down the line. Chuck is no thief. I know the people in the industry who say that he is, I know thier motivation behind saying this, and I am saddened that Chicago is among those people.
I didn't even read Steves post all the way through, as Chicago's wild unsubstantiated accusations drew me away from it. Steve was trying to take the long way around to make Chicago see the actual facts and the truth that stems from them. I have tried that tack and I know it does not work. Its quicker and simpler to call him out as a liar and ask him to amend his sig yet again (if he had amended it every time I had called him out no-one would believe a word he said by now). He then usually backs away from the thread and pops up somewhere else.
nothing to do with Steve D at all. I was just pointing out that Chicago likes to use sensationalist untruths like 'CHUCK STEALS!!!' and uses them in his posts to indicate he is telling the truth. Of course he isn't and I know that, but there are people who come on here that might believe him. That is my fundamental problem with the guy. He lies. His opinions are nearly always pretty right on IMO and he is clearly a clever guy, but he does not take responsibility for what he says. His untruths may do damage to people down the line. Chuck is no thief. I know the people in the industry who say that he is, I know thier motivation behind saying this, and I am saddened that Chicago is among those people.
I didn't even read Steves post all the way through, as Chicago's wild unsubstantiated accusations drew me away from it. Steve was trying to take the long way around to make Chicago see the actual facts and the truth that stems from them. I have tried that tack and I know it does not work. Its quicker and simpler to call him out as a liar and ask him to amend his sig yet again (if he had amended it every time I had called him out no-one would believe a word he said by now). He then usually backs away from the thread and pops up somewhere else.