Cheat and be proud?

[manike]

Re: I'm stunned !

Originally posted by rancid
I still think we're putting the onus on the payer, and I'm not sure that applies in many other sports.

Very true we are, or at least the general concensus is. I think many top pro teams are not. They put it more on the judge.

I played rugby very seriously and would get away with pushing the rules, leaving the scrum early and the odd late tackle on a fly half. I would never punch or stamp anyone though. The first are accepted as part of the game the second are not.

Once cheating is accepted and the enforcement onus is on judges not players then players will do it, but at the moment it is not and it IS such a fundamental part that it is not yet acceptable.

I see more and more top pro teams not calling for checks on themselves or leaving the field when hit. They do wait for judges, which I also believe is not allowed if they know they were hit.

manike

 

[manike]

Originally posted by Tyger
On the players side, just tell me which way we're going, I'll adapt. I'm cool like that. If we're playing honor, No problem. If we're playing 'refs call it always', no problem. Either way, I just wanna know in advance. I like to plan my day.

Agreed

manike

 

[TJ Lambini]

Great post Tyger

You obviously post more sense when you're mad pissed!



>>>When you don't cheat, you don't need to defend yourself, unless specifically being named<<<

Nick, I believe the post I was referring to said 'All Pros cheat', so you kinda were being specified, as was everyone else in the Pro Leagues. But I see what you're saying...you Goddam cheat.

 

[Al Woods]

Rugby comparisons????

I get your views on the old 'if I can get away with the odd punch, kick or illegal nudge then I'll do it' approach to sports such as football (J) and rugby but I think comparing this attitude to the attitude ballers wanna adopt is a bit on the wrong side. Lets not forget that the game of rugby involves hard physical contact and the whole game is based around the toughest dudes getting the ball to the other end of the field and the rule bending you've mentioned is all still in context with the basis of the game. The strongest dude wins out. Now lets look at the basis of paintball. Get the flag or whatever back to your breakout point and shooting out the opposition without getting shot yourself. It's pretty cut and dry the getting shot part, you can't really slightly bend that and be seen as clever or tough, you either get shot or you don't. Yeah sure you can get spray, a lil' clip that don't leave shell and all that but in my eyes there aint no way on earth you can be allowed to bend the basic element of paintball, getting shot.

Wiping, playing on to a ridiculous level, arguing like a baby when you do get shot, trying to be LaSoya when you clearly don't have the skill or nonce to pull it off....etc....these things I disagree with.

The other stuff where the gray area lies is when the refs need to be more pro-active. Solid calls on bunkering moves, controlling the teams from the off, learning not to be intimidated into making a wrong decision are all things refs need to understand and enforce.

 

[goose]

What I am wondering is why everyone thinks that wiping is the greatest evil in the paintball game? Other than the usual "it's just not right" and "it's against the whole foundation of the game" explanations, I can think of one thing that is worse - DELIBERATE - CALCULATED - PLAYING ON.

If you wipe, you might get to stay in the game longer, maybe even win the game because of it - BUT - how many time have we seen teams deliberately play on and win the game.

I'm not talking about 1 player who gets hit, plays on, then leaves the field after the 1-4-1 is given. I am talking about the team that plans it and uses it to their advantage and then bitches about it all the way home.

The amount of confusion that is created by a deliberate, calculated play-on, in my mind does more damage than a wipe ever could. A wipe is only meant to keep a player alive, & take advantage of a turned back (the refs) - a deliberate play-on is meant to cause confusion, distract refs from the game, take advantage of lesser experienced refs and it generally ends up in a huge shouting match that makes us all look like a bunch of babies.

Don't get me wrong - I am not advocating wiping - I just think that the penalties for wiping, and a deliberate/excessive play-on should be reversed. You get a 2-4-1 (that's what the rule book calls for when it is a "game altering" play-on) for a wipe and a 3-4-1 for a deliberate play-on that the whole team takes advantage of to turn the tide of the game.


Just a thought...

goose

 

[Buddha 3]

One heck of a wake up call there, Goose...

Thanks for that comment Goose. I never looked at it that way, but you are soooo right.
Wiping will not directly result in a player of the other team being eliminated. All it will ever do is keep the wiper in the game just a wee longer. Playing on, besides the whole tantrum it can cause, can also result in a player of the other team having his armband removed, while in reality it shouldn't have been. How many times have we seen refs take the easy way out, after a mugger was shot by the muggee (is there such a word?), but he decided to take the easy way out? Honestly, most of the time you'll see both players being pulled from the game, while in reality the guy that ran up was nailed first.
Since wiping can not (directly) have this effect on the game, I have to agree with Goose and say that playing on is a more serious offence.

 

[Hotpoint]

I think the major hang-up with Wiping is the fact it removes the "benefit of the doubt" factor that you get with playing-on

People do get carried away and sometimes what looks like batant playing-on may just be somebody with way too much adrenaline

Often it is cheating pure and simple but for the most part it's a bit less cut and dried that wiping

 

[TJ Lambini]

Playing on and wiping...

pale into insignificance when compared to having deep radio implants and a guy in the crowd pretending to film you but secretly coaching and informing you of the opponents' moves.

 

[goose]

Trust TJ to get to the real heart of the matter

Hotpoint - re-read my post, I am not talking about the single player who has too much adrenalin in his body and plays on. I am talking about the teams that use playing on as a tactic to disrupt the game and confuse the refs.

How many times have we seen a team have a player on one side of the field play-on to ditract the refs, while the rest of his team moves down the other side?

It's this kind of playing on that I think needs to be hit hard.

goose

P.S. Buddha where you in Toulouse? If you where how come you didn't look me up? I was the goofy looking dude on field one speaking perfect english

 

[Hotpoint]

Playing on and wiping...

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
pale into insignificance when compared to having deep radio implants and a guy in the crowd pretending to film you but secretly coaching and informing you of the opponents' moves.

I thought I told you before TJ there are no implants, that's just a stupid conspiracy theory...

... they use telepathy

Go on, accuse me of giving a certain Frenchman ideas like you did last time