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A must read - PA rule change for the 2005 season

Russell Smith

The Paintball Association
Can I just remind people here before you all run to your suppliers to get a new board.
This is NOT a new rule, it is something the PA want to allow and will allow as soon as the HO agree.
You all think you fire quick enough but most of you worry when you go to the chrono stations and in silly case's dont get to play because of a suspect marker.
All I/we want is to allow people to play, we also want a level playing ground, you might not cheat but I assure you some one you played against did - and they may not even know they did.
We have to include ramping in the rule because it is out there and it will stay out there so we have to address a growing concern and if we don't it will be a much larger problem.
I have been on the reffing side of this sport for over 13 years and have seen plenty of changes, some did well some were a waste of time, I promise you these cheats on markers are in use I even know when a markers ramping and I can do sod all about it because as soon as the player stops shooting so I can test the marker the mode is hidden and how can I say that he could not have fired his marker that fast using just his fingers.
Some people have complained that its not fair because they can fire faster than that themselves, but post later saying they dont like that much paint in the air if we cap it!!!!
Others say they will use more paint ! I doubt it overall, but why then ask to increase the limit to 18.
I watched a good few NXL X-ball games at the world cup (FA 15bps) and the truth is the markers in open X-ball (same as we use)went much faster, how, you tell me.


This is for the good of the game and I would go so far as to say without this there will be no paintball the real sport, just us lot lying to ourselves every sunday pretending we will be a sport one day when we get to never never land.


Russ
 

Matski

SO hot right now
Aug 8, 2001
1,737
0
0
Flash

If you think people will move to longer, stiffer trigger pulls your living in a dream...

Most will have their guns set to the limit, so they can get to 10bps quick as possible. And hell why not start shooting just before you bunker someone, 15 shots is better than 3 right. The rule gives players more flexibility, and players will exploit it as much as they possibly can, just like other grey areas of the game...
 

Russell Smith

The Paintball Association
Flash

Originally posted by matski
If you think people will move to longer, stiffer trigger pulls your living in a dream...

Most will have their guns set to the limit, so they can get to 10bps quick as possible. And hell why not start shooting just before you bunker someone, 15 shots is better than 3 right. The rule gives players more flexibility, and players will exploit is as much as they possibly can, just like other grey areas of the game...

Thats just my point - it takes the grey out;)



Russ
 

Matski

SO hot right now
Aug 8, 2001
1,737
0
0
Where 1 grey area ends another begins mate:p. But im not against the idea it helps to level things out a bit... :)
 

psycho

Baggin ain't easy!
Apr 2, 2003
773
12
43
Stoneys Basement
Cheat noards!!

I can't understand how doing this is in anyway gonna improve things. What every true brit baller wants, is to see Uk teams become a bigger force. How can this ever happen with such rules as this. Say a team plays the PA League all year then they decide to go play in Europe and all of a sudden they arent allowed ramping guns (they are called cheat boards cos its CHEATING!!!). What happens then? True it worked in the NXL but that is a totally different format.. This sucks, end of!!:p
 

Steve Hancock

Free man!
Aug 7, 2003
1,489
0
0
43
Birmingham (UK)
students.bugs.bham.ac.uk
I can understand the dificulty with bounce as it is not clearly definable, objectiovely testable, and to easily accidental. However ramping (Including concealed ramping in designer cheats) are easier to define, and not possible to be acidental.

The problem is i don't know enough about the technology to come up with an alternative that i know would be workable.

However here is my best attempt. :)

Shots can be added by bounce or by ramp.

1. Anything that causes the micro switch to be activated more times that the trigger is pulled by the finger as bounce. Allow bounce, only excluding anything so bouncey that the marker can be fired without the trigger being pulled, eg banging the bottom of the bottle, marker continuing to fire full-auto after finger removed from trigger, touching the side of the trigger.

2. Anything that adds more shots than the micro switch detects is ramp. Ban ramp.


If ramping is not hidden it is easy to detect, hook the outputs of the micro switch to a PC. You will have an untamperable value for the pulls detected by the micro switch. Count the number of shots, if more, its ramping.

If ramping is hidden, it is not easy to detect as decompilling boards' programs to find their functionality can be a nightmare, and is unpractical in terms of cost/time/facilities. Therefore-

3. Ban non-approved programs. Manufacturers submit the programs there boards come with as standard, in order to get them approved. (They could just submit the compiled versions just a load of 01101010011001010101, in order to protect their software designs)

Players have to sign an agreement that if they are suspected of having a ramping marker, their marker can be confiscated to be tested and returned to them by courier (at the expense of the organisers) by the following friday (so as not to miss any training/other tourneys). If they refuse they are liable for the same penalty as if they were found to have the naughty board.


It should be relatively easy to check that the 1's and 0's of the code are the same as one of the approved programs, even if their functionality can't be so easily checked. Just hook them up to a PC or even a laptop on the day to avoid postage costs.

This wouldn't need to be used often. And there is no problem with penalties being applied to accidental/mechanical-failure "cheats" so penalties can be as harsh as you like, without risk of over punishing accidents.


Players that have no cheat functions have nothing to fear at the chrono, provided their bounce is not excessive, and this is something they have an objective, clearly defined criteria and test for that they can perform themself.

It would be safer than allowing ramp, as although bounce would be allowed, in the close range situations where excessive firing is particularly undesireable it would be harder to achieve as it is necessary to hold the marker in a carfull way to acheve bounce which woun't be done on a mugging or paniced close range shotout. No one is going to try and patiently find the sweetspot while mugging someone or when someone pops up in the same bunker as them.



So what do you think, is this a workable alternative?

Constuctive comments much appreciated. :)
 

manike

INCEPTIONDESIGNS.COM
Jul 9, 2001
3,064
10
63
Cloud 9
www.inceptiondesigns.com
Originally posted by Steve Hancock
So what do you think, is this a workable alternative?
Nope, you lost it when you got to here...

Originally posted by Steve Hancock
If ramping is hidden, it is not easy to detect as decompilling boards' programs to find their functionality can be a nightmare, and is unpractical in terms of cost/time/facilities. Therefore-

3. Ban non-approved programs. Manufacturers submit the programs there boards come with as standard, in order to get them approved. (They could just submit the compiled versions just a load of 01101010011001010101, in order to protect their software designs)


No chance in hell. Sorry.

None of catching hidden code in board. None of anyone knowing what is in that 'standard code'
 

manike

INCEPTIONDESIGNS.COM
Jul 9, 2001
3,064
10
63
Cloud 9
www.inceptiondesigns.com
And trying to tell the difference between ramp and bounce would be impossible.

Bounce is worse than ramp in my opinion because it can lead to multiple accidental discharges and the chance of a double blinding (what gets the Eye council going) is higher.

I'd rather see ramp than bounce any day.
 
Originally posted by manike
Nope, you lost it when you got to here...



No chance in hell. Sorry.

None of catching hidden code in board. None of anyone knowing what is in that 'standard code'
May I add here there is also not a chance that the manufacturers would release the code any format. Compiled code can easily be decompiled back to something inteligable/stealable.