A must read - PA rule change for the 2005 season

[manike]

Originally posted by chrismrgn
I would agree with the adition of different modes being alowed, but do not agree with people being pulled off the field if they shoot 18bps without any electronic aid.

There is no way in HELL that people can shoot 18 with out any electronic aid.

It's just how much electronic aid is legal within the rules.

All top end guns have 'electronic' aid, even if you mean as basic as the ability to store a shot that was pulled during a firing cycle.

Some electronic aid is allowed within the rules, some is not.

 

[sie2050]

i think he means electronic aid as in ramping chips not electric triggers

 

[manike]

Originally posted by sie2050
i think he means electronic aid as in ramping chips not electric triggers

I know. My point still stands.

There is aid in the software, just how much aid is allowed?

He said without any.

I say no way.

 

[swave_gav]

has it been confirmed by the pa there rules will be in place ? and what rules are they gonna be ???

 

[Collier]

Originally posted by swave_gav
has it been confirmed by the pa there rules will be in place ? and what rules are they gonna be ???

Not yet no.

 

[HERMITT]

Hehehehehe!

This is one of the funniest threads i have ever read! I remember having the same conversations when semi markers came onto the scene. Then the same happened when electronic markers came to be.

"Everyone will hide behind their barricade and shoot ropes of paint"

"It takes the skill out"

"It will cost more"

"Its dangerous"

There are some elements of the above that are true and valid, but it still sounds like we are arguing against what is clearly aimed at clarifying rules that have been around for too long without adapting to the game. Do you think the rules of other sports were just set in stone when they were invented?

The limit of 15bps is wrong. It should be 18bps, this is beyond anyones natural capability. An increase in the enforcement of hot guns should be enacted. This is now THE most important part of the game. And as far as capping rates of fire on markers, its a piece of piss, all it takes is an ability to programme a stop point in the cycling functions that will not allow it to cycle any faster. SIMPLE. This will only apply to people who are going to want o buy new boards or get theirs reprogrammed. If the rule is 18bps then the people who can fire fast without the need to upgrade their board have nothing to worry about.

 

[Russell Smith]

Originally posted by Chuck
Are the Bps counters ones that could be used mid game? If they are then that negates most of the problems of being able to turn cheats on and off. NXL style checks might work well, just change the 15bps limit to an assisted allowed limit rather than full auto.

If the bps counters are a static type that will be used in a chrono type station, then you will be wasting your time.

If the home office are ok with it, you still need to pull on the trigger to sustain the "assist"(say 3 times a second) and the marker stops firing when you release. Cannot see it being a problem really.

Peegee's concerns are valid though. There will be a lot of markers that wont have an eye on ROF cap, these guys will be either penalised or have their markers set so slow so as to avoid being pulled that they will be severly out gunned by those that have capped chips. Where is the level playing field there?
Remember the PA is not the PSP or the NPPL. The individuals/teams that play it do not have the budgets to just drop what markers they are currently using and go out and buy new ones that do have the ability to be capped.


Chuck

The device we are checking(and nothing will change until the device is proved) will do it mid game with the player playing his/her game.
As for the ramping we have not yet agreed on a level but please don't think we just sit there and get a figure out of the thin air, we do talk to the manufactuers and ask there opinion.
We also realise there is also a awfull lot of markers out there with modes on board at the moment, and we must try and let them be used as they are - as long as we think they are safe.
lets say we go with 10 balls per second and the marker is allowed to ramp up to 15 we would (This is my own opinion only) I think not want to allow that mode to carry on if the trigger was not pulled at least 8 times a second.
The figure of 15 bps is because that is the figure that has been talked about by all the major leagues and we need to keep the rulebooks as similar as we can. I think it would be wrong if we said 12/13/14 if they are using 15.
This may be the most radical change to paintball in this country ever, that is why we have proposed this online for everyones opinions before we go ahead with anything.
Paul has some good points and we will address them.
The PSP has/is doing a similar rule but that will still not allow ramping(not confirmed as yet) but we think that is not good enough, the cheats will still be there and you still will not find them.
The PA was formed to better paintball in the UK, we are sure this is a way of helping that aim.



Russ

 

[Gups]

A few thoughts

1. How do the refs feel about 14 players shooting 15bps? Will they be prepared/happy to go in for a paintcheck?
2. Over aggressive play. We get pulled for this with non-ramping guns, just cos a player has 4 or 5 hits on them when 2 players are shooting at them. I assume the 'limit' of shots you can put into someone will increase before it's deemed 'over aggressive'?
3. Is this why 'hard head protection' is recommended and may be compulsory from 2k6?
4. How exactly are you going to swing this with the HO? Will markers be de-classified from the 'airgun' category? I can think of some problems there...?

 

[Flash-Bugout]

Cross posted from the PA forums, but I want to see what response it gets here (apart from shut the f&*k up you daft pr!ck )
----

Now that I've had the chance to think about this for a couple of days, I'm seeing the good side from the safety point of view - as long as one thing is cracked down on.

Trigger bounce.

The way I see it is this: with ramping/electronically assisted shooting, people can (and maybe/hopefully will) go for longer heavier trigger pulls. This = muchos safer - longer trigger pull = less likely for a gat to go off when bumped in the safe area. Also, with the ramping requiring a number of bps before kicking in, this is safer when a gat goes off when it shouldn't (eg safe zone) - you (should) only get a shot or two.

The problem I have just forseen whilst typing this post is the lower-end/(dare I say it) less-serious teams who cannot afford the latest/greatest firmware/marker, who pick up the cheap e-blades etc which the top guys are now going to ditch in favour of a ramping marker, and set them up to bounce wildly (with bps cap on) to keep up with the rampers.

This means more bouncy triggers, which means more gats likely to go off in the safe-zone when buumped, and because they are set to run away up to 15bps, the chance of one of those flimsy bits of cloth we call barrel condoms taking a shed load of paint is going to be increased. And (just following my wild theories through here) because it's a new/less-experienced/less well off player, the chance that their barrel condom is a little older/more used is more, meaning a higher chance of failure.

The above, of course, is just my wild imagination running away with me, trying to cover all future possibilities with this rule - but I think the wild trigger bounce scenario should be taken into consideration if/when the final ruling is made/worded.

 

[Russell Smith]

Originally posted by Flash-Bugout
Cross posted from the PA forums, but I want to see what response it gets here (apart from shut the f&*k up you daft pr!ck )
----

Now that I've had the chance to think about this for a couple of days, I'm seeing the good side from the safety point of view - as long as one thing is cracked down on.

Trigger bounce.

The way I see it is this: with ramping/electronically assisted shooting, people can (and maybe/hopefully will) go for longer heavier trigger pulls. This = muchos safer - longer trigger pull = less likely for a gat to go off when bumped in the safe area. Also, with the ramping requiring a number of bps before kicking in, this is safer when a gat goes off when it shouldn't (eg safe zone) - you (should) only get a shot or two.

The problem I have just forseen whilst typing this post is the lower-end/(dare I say it) less-serious teams who cannot afford the latest/greatest firmware/marker, who pick up the cheap e-blades etc which the top guys are now going to ditch in favour of a ramping marker, and set them up to bounce wildly (with bps cap on) to keep up with the rampers.

This means more bouncy triggers, which means more gats likely to go off in the safe-zone when buumped, and because they are set to run away up to 15bps, the chance of one of those flimsy bits of cloth we call barrel condoms taking a shed load of paint is going to be increased. And (just following my wild theories through here) because it's a new/less-experienced/less well off player, the chance that their barrel condom is a little older/more used is more, meaning a higher chance of failure.

The above, of course, is just my wild imagination running away with me, trying to cover all future possibilities with this rule - but I think the wild trigger bounce scenario should be taken into consideration if/when the final ruling is made/worded.

If you set up your marker to be that bouncy so it went "runaway" that would be seen as fully auto and there is very stiff penaltys for that which include a nationwide ban.

Russ