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2004 - It's Done- Merged

SteveD

Getting Up Again
Furby asked, so I will respond.

First, let me set a few things straight:

The concept of a spectator friendly version of the game was initially put forth when I founded the NPPL in 1992. Since most of the folks involved were uninterested in the concept (or were told to be uninterested), when I was shuffled off to Buffalo by some unnamed individuals, I took the idea with me.

It was presented to the public in 2000 at PaintFest. It was televised and viewed with great success and enjoyed many firsts, among them first national event at a major venue with indoor bathrooms, trade show, grass fields, etc. It aired nationally on Thanksgiving weekend and had good market share. Despite the fact that it was a new series, it was the third largest drawing event of 2000 (only world cup and IAO had more attending teams). It had just a little over 1000 PAYING spectators (5.00 at the gate). I think that should lay to rest any doubts anyone may have regarding my and my team's ability to host a successful event - despite whatever you may have heard elsewhere (and let me tell you, the character-assassination crap I've been subjected to since 1996 is second only to nothing I can think of off hand...)

Now for the meat and potatoes:

1. We were asked by Chuck Hendsch to 'hold off' on our Miami demo - despite the fact that we have pretty much everything we need in place to pull it off. Why, I don't know.

2. The BEST political and business move for those who are now out in the cold is, as quickly as possible put together an alternative: the ONLY people who will have any chips to play with next year will be those who are capable of taking market share from PLP, and that means - a viable televised format and associated league.

4. The history of professional sports in the United States is littered with the dried out husks of BIG league's who's lunch was eaten by little guys (NBA, NFL...)

5. My format is patented. I will not say anything more about that particular fact other than that the first sentence of this paragraph ought to be read 'between-the-lines'.

6. PaintFest and the introduction of the Davidson format was sponsored by Diablo. This fact should also be read 'b-t-l'

7. I find it interesting that the PLP announcement included a statement to the effect that there is only room on television for one league and that things are now 'locked down'; the last time I looked, there were about a gazillion INTERNATIONAL broadcasters and not a single one of them was owned or controlled by Dick Clark Productions. (In fact, not even DCP is owned by Dick Clark.....). That particular statement makes it sound - to me - as if those involved are VERY worried about someone stepping on their toes.

8. I, for one, will not be interested in a glorified version of center flag produced by the same people who brought us 'Dick Clark's Rockin New Year's Eve.....' the X-ball format has flaws which will come to the fore as the games begin to mean more. This last sentence should be read after referring back to paragraph #5. Obviously someone at the new 'PLP' is aware of this as well, given the veiled hints as to 'changes' in their press releases.

9. I think that the NPPL-Pure Promotions folks ought to be giving me a call - uspl@cfl.rr.com

10. I think that the NPPL-Pure Promotions folks ought to be giving me a call - uspl@cfl.rr.com

11. I think that the NPPL-Pure Promotions folks ought to be giving me a call - uspl@cfl.rr.com


I think that what Pete suggested in his original post is spot-on. Get together and do it NOW. I will support it in any way I can. If this nascent effort would like to use the Davidson format, I will be happy to discuss the possibility and will be happy to entertain ANY reasonable relationship with such an effort.

12. I think that the Millennium folks ought to be giving me a call - uspl@cfl.rr.com

13. I think that the Millennium folks ought to be giving me a call - uspl@cfl.rr.com

14. I think that the Millennium folks ought to be giving me a call - uspl@cfl.rr.com


15. The Davidson format (the USPL format was named for the new league; at the current time, because we don't want people to think that we are trying to take over everything, I refer to it as the 'Davidson format') has already PROVEN that it works in front of the camera. The slamming aspect can be left in or taken out - but it does make the best video. Perhaps most important of all, the Davidson format rewards team work, skill, athleticism and intelligence - a format that people like Pete will be able to excel at - even in their old age........

16. I would love to be a fly on the wall when the discussion takes place regarding exactly what was purchased by DCP: DO the existing franchises transfer over...? I wonder this in light of an historical occurrence involving paintball and television. Back in 1995, the signing of a deal for the Paintball Sports World Championship on ESPN was announced by a gentleman who was, at the time, the legal counsel for the NPPL and a promoter of some of the NPPL's tournaments and it sounded something like this: "I have just signed a deal with ESPN to televise paintball. Any member teams here who would like to participate, it will ONLY cost you $1250 entry fee....." Of course, all the member teams at the time thought that their legal counsel was negotiating with television on their behalf - but then, that's a different story now, isn't it.........

17. The Davidson format utilized 7 player SPECIFICALLY because I had identified it as the true international standard - in fact, I think Pete can back me up on that, if he remembers a telephone conversation we had on the subject about 4 years ago.

18. The format can be easily modified to meet whatever requirements may be put on the table.

19. Pete can also back me up when I say that I was instrumental in the development of the rules, seating, ranking and scheduling systems used by tournaments today. If anyone wants help in figuring out how to keep an international league straight - I've got about four alternatives already developed that you're welcome to.

20. Once again, I would like to emphasize the following: The only effective alternative is one which can play in front of the camera. Only another televised league will be able to counter and/or negotiate effectively with the PLP. I believe that my format is the best way to put the game on TV; obviously, the OTHER folks do too, since its obvious to anyone who has seen both that it is a poor copy. Once again, refer back to paragraph 5.

21. The format is available for use to the right people, with the right effort, with no prior constraints and no prior demands. Anyone who is interested, get in touch.

I don't know if I've said enough yet or not. Probably I have so far as some people are concerned. I wonder how DCP will feel when they realize they've purchased a pig in a poke? Not too badly - because it WON'T be a pig-in-a-poke UNLESS the people who routinely bitch, moan, complain and agitate finally get off their asses, figure out a way to work TOGETHER and do so in an open, professional, equitable (for all concerned) manner. We can all now see exactly what greed and heavy-handed politics get you when 'the good guys' remain silent - it gets you everything.

So long as the 'good guys' squabble amongst themselves over peanuts and continue to think that things will improve despite feeding the monster by giving it money on a regular basis, things will NOT get better, your ability to manuever will continually be reduced and you eventually have nothing.

Let me put this in a manner I am sure everyone will understand:

you and your teammate are on the fifty; your last cover guy has just been eliminated, there's 30 seconds left on the clock, the other team is up two to one and if you lose this game you are going home. If the two of you don't figure out - real quick - how to communicate cross-field, this game is OVER!

Questions? I have some answers and I have some solutions. Other people have contacts, other ideas and money. I would be more than happy to talk with any and all of you about how we can put it all together. In fact, come Monday, I'll be making a few phone calls myself.

Steve. (who is obviously either too stubbon, too stupid or too crazed to give up, even after 20 years of virtually uninterrupted paintball bull)
 

sjt19

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Hmmmm.....

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
I have a few concerns here:

- A 7-man "X-ball like" format will see teams bring at least 14 players to each event. - Can any Pro team out there actually do that ?
Huh, when i said exactly the same thing to you about how an 18 team EXL would be sustained as teams would need 13-14 players your response was that they would harvest the best players out of Am A and Am B to provide a sufficient player base. What has suddenly changed your mind?:confused:
 

Robbo

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Hmmmm.....

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
I have a few concerns here:
- Merging the Millennium and NPPLS makes sense on an organisational level.... but how many teams actually have the money to play both sides of the Atlantic ?

I fear such a league, as it is proposed, would only allow 2 - maybe 3 - Euro teams to participate because of lack of financing, and I belive that is just not good enough for European paintball ?

Please correct me if I havemisunderstood something here ?

Nick
Nick, the merging of the leagues isn't so much for the benefit of the majority of the teams who play in it, leastwise not in the short term, it is to provide an 'international' presentation for any prospective TV or outside sponsor interests.

We already know the majority of teams from respective sides of the pond ain't gonna be flying from one continent to the other but some teams will and it is these top teams, in my opinion, that have to be focused upon in any alliance league.
Much like the original proposals talked about for the WXL last year.
The finer details of precise formats etc is best left to others to work out.
The whole point of this integration is to validate the league internationally and in that way Europe, in the mid term, can have a chance of not getting left behind whereas mid term chances going down the x-ball road in isolation from the Yanks, amounts to nothing.
 

Robbo

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I know - but.....

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
....won't you just be making a league for you guys, the russians and the Tontons - and then the US NPPL teams ?

So - what's in it for the rest of us ?

Nick

You get to watch us play :):):)
Hee hee
 

Robbo

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Steve D, I think a certain amount of dovetailing needs to be done, as to what degree and as to what parties remains to be seen but I think recent circumstances dictates a faster paced assimilation of a USPL type format into the NPPL infrastructure than maybe what was thought of before.
I have no idea what their plans are and I have some meetings soon that may throw some light upon the European response but paintball as I said before, is at a crossroads with more than one person holding our fate in their hands.
The next week or so may help us see a bit clearer which way to go, maybe not, these are dynamic and somewhat confusing times.

Steve- cya in Miami for a chat :)
 
R

raehl

Guest
One for 21 ain't bad...

As Steve pointed out, formats can be changed to meet the needs of TV, and they can be changed easily. It's silly to base any argument on the relative merits of how a format plays for TV, because that can and will be changed if TV demands it.


- Chris
 

Robbo

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So ?

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
What you are saying is, that European teams (apart from Nexus, Russian Legion and the Tontons can choose between:

A) Supporting X-ball, and thus have a chance at being part of the "big time"

B) Supporting "Y-ball" and be left on the outside looking in ?

Hmmm... let med think about that one......

I think I'll go with option A then !

:rolleyes:

Nick

Nick, I was kiddin with ya.... :)

Lemme wake up and I'll answer yer original question but I had to leave it up coz I was giggling to meslef all the time imagining what your face looked like when you read my answer :)
 

Robbo

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Nick, here goes, I have woken up enough and managed to stop laughing.....

The choice you have as I see it, is as follows :-

You can run EXL but it won't have a US component to it and if you are looking to promote this format for TV / outside sponsorship then I'm afraid it's gonna be a protracted affair.

Success in paintball terms at the moment can be defined by its chances of getting on mainstream TV and attracting big outside sponsors.
Remember the goalposts have been changed recently and the bar has been raised to unprecedented heights.
Over here in Europe we have a few fundamentals to realise, we either try to run independently with X-ball, Y-ball, 7-man whatever and hope to market and promote and eventually succeed in getting the same sorta deal as the Yanks (NXL) looks as though they might get.
I say might coz it ain't yet a done deal, they got signed up with Dick Clark but this does not yet translate (as I understand it) to an actual TV slot or commitment.

Or, we run with the NPPL / Pure Promotions who already have a foothold on the US media via Fox Sports and NBC.
Now remember, Fox have already aired to 84 million US homes multiple showings of the Huntington Beach, Vegas and Chi Town vids.
Now if you want a parochial start to paintball, fine, you play in Europe with yer other 17 teams in whatever format you like but there are now opportunities that allow us to set our sights higher if only we have the commitment and imagination.
If you view European paintball's development in terms of whether you play in EXL as against not playing in NPPL / Millennium then I think the choice is simple for you.

And Nick, you already know the real answer for the Ducklings, it's just a matter of getting out there and trying to secure the resources to enable you to play Stateside.
 

Wadidiz

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Originally posted by Robbo
You can run EXL but it won't have a US component to it...
Are you sure, Robbo?:D :D

Just kidding. I think you guys got some interesting ideas going here. Whaddever the case, I sure hope we get our sushi together quickly, think big like you say and God forbid things keep on in a same-ole-same-ole fashiion.

And I sure as hell don't want there to be another Nations Cup! It has served its purpose, gave players a chance to try X Ball out, created interest among spectators, and was successful in getting some friends/colleagues very irritated at me.

On a positive note, the reports from all the Millenniums have been that all the non-PB spectators that saw X Ball thought it was fantastic. And the USA vs Sweden game at Joy Masters particularly was smashing! You should have seen the music, smoke, light show and field lay-out! Better than anything NXL have done so far!

Now...when, who and how are we going to have a discussion about the details of a viable playing format for a World PB league (Millennium/NPPL)?

Nick and quite a few others had an interesting discussion a couple of months ago about a streamlined, more exciting, more agressive center-flag 7-player format. Is that germane here?

Steve
 

SteveD

Getting Up Again
Folks are still concentrating on league structure - at least the posts here seem to indicate that.

Nothing decided on that front will be viable, so far as an international league is concerned, until the league itself is put together.

...note: for BEST results, place cart behind horse...

I would suggest that the teams belonging to a healthy international league will not have to worry about the travel expense of getting to the events, wherever they may be held.

I would also suggest that there are ranking/comparison systems available that will allow such a league to operate successfully even if it is essentially two 'conferences' - a Euro conference and a North American conference - with most play taking place independently within the conferences, with the occassional cross conference trip.

I think the primary discussion should be on getting leagues together, rather than what they are going to play.