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Pro players in lower divisions

shamu

Tonight we dine in hell
Apr 17, 2002
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Now-Cal
Nick,

It sounds like you're assuming that you can correctly identify every professional player, and thus can prevent pros from playing in the lower divisions. No offense but I think you're wrong about that.

Sure it's easy to spot them now - they're wearing their nice pro uniforms. What happens when they try to blend in or hide their identity so they can play? The NPPL had significant problems tracking NXL players when they first locked the pro ranks. The APPA rosters makes it a little easier to track the NXL players (still not 100%), but how do you prove someone is an NPPL pro? NPPL doesn't have online rosters. Do you know every player on every professional team, or are you just going to take someone's word that a player is a pro? Because if you start DQ'ing teams without some kind of proof, you're in for a bigger mess than just letting pros play in D1. Just the arguements alone are going to cause headaches ("he's a pro" "no, I'm not" "yes you are"...):rolleyes:

The second part of your argument is specious at best.

"Nothing is stopping that player from dropping to that level permanently - by making the team he is guesting for his permanent team - nobody would have a problem with that - and it happens all the time in every sport."

So if Ollie or Pete say "Bullets are our main team. We just guest with that Ironmen team", you'll have no problem with it? The way you describe it above just sounds like semantics to me - I can be a pro in one or two leagues as long as I say I'm a D1 player in Millenium?

As long as you have three seperate leagues with three seperate classification systems, you're going to have player crossover. If you allow it within set limitations (pros can only play D1, teams can only have 1 pro player, etc) you allow those who want to play to do so legally, while reducing the incentive to cheat.

Players want to play. It's their nature. Americans want to go to europe, and europeans want to go to the US. If you could play with no expenses or even get paid, you'd do it, rght? So the temptation is always going to be there. By managing that temptation in a legal direction, you avoid the temptation to cheat that a rigid, unenforcable rule creates.

:)
 

Nick Brockdorff

New Member
Jul 9, 2001
588
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www.uglyducklings.dk
Actually - come to think of it - what would happen if - for instance - a Bullets player got on the Ironmen?

Should he then be precluded from still playing MS with his old team?

Maybe the rules needed to state that if you had been rostered with the team for X amount of time - you were allowed to be excepted from the rules?

Nick
 

Nick Brockdorff

New Member
Jul 9, 2001
588
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www.uglyducklings.dk
Shamu:

I fully understand all the problems attached to policing this - which is why I hope this debate will go some way in creating a solution.

But, at base level, do you agree it would be best if low ranked teams could not hire top level players for events, to save themselves from relegation?

Nick
 

Bolter

Administrator
Aug 19, 2003
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Kettering
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That's what training is for buddy - you can go play Nexus, Shock, Ducks, Disruption, Tigers, etc. all you want.

But, if you are in a league with promotion and relegation, you would like to have a fair shot in that league, rather than seeing teams skip 10-12 steps and just rent players to ensure they are not relegated.

Why do you think the MS transfer rules are in place? - if what you say is right - why even bother with transfer rules at all? - why not just say it is a free for all - in every division?

Nick
Nah Im still saying that it matters not who you face, its how you face them. Suck it up, and get better.

And as for

That's what training is for buddy - you can go play Nexus, Shock, Ducks, Disruption, Tigers, etc. all you want.
So training is the same as NPPL finals on field 1 against Dynasty? Or CPL finals on the Millenium field against Joy Division? Even if we were invited to scrimmage with any of those teams, the situation is NOT the same as a tournament match. And Pro's or no pro's I would love my team to have the chance to compete against the Worlds best.

For the record, I do understand your point of view on this. I just don't neccessarily agree with it wholly.
 

KitsuneAndy

Platinum Member
Although it doesn't directly affect me as I dont play at the mills, I think I'd have to agree with Mr U.

I don't think players should be able to bring in a 'ringer' for one or two events, but if that person is a permanant member of the team then I don't think it matters. You know who is on the team before you play them, it's not like you're expecting to play 'Team A' but 'Team B' turn up on the field as they've hired a load of ringers for the event.
 

Nick Brockdorff

New Member
Jul 9, 2001
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www.uglyducklings.dk
it's not like you're expecting to play 'Team A' but 'Team B' turn up on the field as they've hired a load of ringers for the event
So, if I decided to bring in 5 Russian Legion players for the rest of the season, to play the SPL for the Ugly Ducklings - you would think that was fair? :)

Nick
 

Freddie Brockdorff

Olva the Berserker
Aug 22, 2005
752
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41
Copenhagen, Denmark
I don't think players should be able to bring in a 'ringer' for one or two events, but if that person is a permanant member of the team then I don't think it matters. You know who is on the team before you play them, it's not like you're expecting to play 'Team A' but 'Team B' turn up on the field as they've hired a load of ringers for the event.
Which is pretty much what happend at this event in a lot of cases..... ;)

Either we have to do some ruling about this matter, which (unfortunately for some!) would include everyone - make of a rule that could work in favour of all - OR we just live with how it works now!!
 

KitsuneAndy

Platinum Member
So, if I decided to bring in 5 Russian Legion players for the rest of the season, to play the SPL for the Ugly Ducklings - you would think that was fair? :)

Nick
No, but I would if it was a permanant move to your team and that they were going to be playing for you for years to come (or that was your honest intention at the time of signing them). Where the Bullets are concerned, they're hardly fielding a couple of ringers, it's obvious they form part of the team.

However, I do realise the above would be impossible to police as people would just have to say they were permanant additions and would be playing every year etc etc
 

Bolter

Administrator
Aug 19, 2003
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Bolter - you can't have it both ways dude :D

Either YOU suck it up and get better - to get to field 1 in the NPPL - or you accept that you can only play them at practice? ;)

Nick
Its not easy for those teams to say yes to training with us I'm sure. So the best chance we got to play better and better competition is to play these "ringer" teams as and when the chances come our way. Hell, if we place well in Div 1 this year, we may get an SPL spot and be able to.

But anyway, if you don't agree with me then thats fine. Its my opinion, and I dont accept yours, although I understand your point. I like the idea, you don't think its fair. Fair enough?

PS of course we are trying to get better...