Pro players in lower divisions

[Nick Brockdorff]

I honestly don't think we need a global ID system to police a new rule on this.

It would ofcourse be watertight if we had - but you can bet your bottom dollar, that if some Pro players tries to cheat the system, someone out there will blow the whistle on him!

And anyway - it's not like we require people to identify themselves when they get ID cards at the moment - anyone can just walk up and get registered under any name, so a global system wouldn't help us anyway, if people that WANT to cheat the system, can just register under a false name.

Nick

 

[ChuckC]

But for Pro team players (US or European) to drop down a division and play in the SPL, is just downright wrong, and I fail to understand why the MS allows it.

I don't think playing in the SPL is wrong. And if the SPL is locked, then you can't say playing Div 1 is wrong.

If you are going to have locked divisions, then you must allow teams to roster any level of player they wish in the first unlocked division....

You can't design a system where a team is forced to start at the bottom of the totem pole, and then get mad when they roster good players in an effort to climb the ranks. And if you disallow a player to play in the highest open division in the highest level tournament on the continent....well, that's called discrimination.

 

[soadrkorny]

just to add in about 1 or 2 pro players being added to your roster making a difference

i cant remember what issue it was in pgi but it was quite a few months back, robbo wrote a section on a similiar subject and talked about one man games and if you really need to be a team to win

just thought it might be a little help
ill see if i can find the section and post which issue and page it was

phyllis

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

I don't think playing in the SPL is wrong. And if the SPL is locked, then you can't say playing Div 1 is wrong.

If you are going to have locked divisions, then you must allow teams to roster any level of player they wish in the first unlocked division....

You can't design a system where a team is forced to start at the bottom of the totem pole, and then get mad when they roster good players in an effort to climb the ranks. And if you disallow a player to play in the highest open division in the highest level tournament on the continent....well, that's called discrimination.

Nothing is stopping that player from dropping to that level permanently - by making the team he is guesting for his permanent team - nobody would have a problem with that - and it happens all the time in every sport.

What IS a problem, is that you hire in players that are naturally rostered on another and much higher level team, and will never truly be part of your team - I mean - half the "guest players" even played in their "real" teams uniforms... it is a JOKE - and makes a mockery of calling paintball a SPORT.

Nick

 

[Mr. U]

I would like to begin by stating that this is a reply and not a apology.
Now, seeing as how I am one of those pro players that this forum has been directed at, I would like to say a couple of things.

First and foremost, I have been playing with the Budapest Bullets for four seasons now. I met the Bullets at a clinic in Majorca, whereupon I was invited to come to Hungary to teach a clinic and then invited to become part of the team. Contrary to popular belief, I did not join the Bullets to be a sandbagger. In fact, the only reason the Bullets are not playing pro right now is because I failed at my job of training the team well enough to gain a CPL spot last year. If the Millenium had not locked the CPL we would enter as pro every event, but due to the rules we have to be in the SPL and there we will stay until we earn our spot.

Nick, you and I have been friends for a long time, but I dont understand how you could take my playing in the SPL as a personal insult and then attemp to insult me by saying that I have no self respect for myself. I was hired as a coach/trainer for the Bullets. I was not hired as a gunslinger. My job is to use my experence and knowledge of the game to help the Bullets play at the highest level and to assist in the growth of the Bullets Paintball franchise as well as paintball in Hungary. Fortunately, I feel that I have succeeded in doing this.

Many years ago, when I first traveled to europe to compete in the Millenium Series, there were a lot of US teams such as Ground Zero, Dynasty, Avalanche, and The All Americans who were competeing. But do to the newly formed NXL--whose rules are very stringent--we were not allowed to travel as a team to play in Europe. The Millenium Series quickly locked up its Pro spots which left most U.S. players unable to compete in the European series. American pro players enjoyed traveling to Europe as well as competing in the Millenium Series. Still, they had nowhere to play since most of the Euro Pro teams already had full rosters with an abundance of talent.

I can't stress this enough: Having a guest player on your roster does not automatically give you a tournament win, you as a TEAM have to earn it. This was very activeley shown last weekend in Toulose, many SPL teams had guest stars playing with them, but only one was able to reach the finals and achieve only a fourth place finish. DagnirDae a team that has been together for a long time took home the cup, and i would like to congratulate them on there well deserved win.

Having a guest pro player on your team is not always as great as it seems. We as the Bullets have become a great team. We have to endure comments from critics everytime we play a tournament. Honestley I feel without Oliver and myself the Bullets would have achieved a higher place in Toulouse. But as a team we win and lose together.

I know most of the U.S pro players that were in Toulouse, and i will bet that all of them would rather be playing in the CPL, but that is not where the demand for there knowledge and experence was.

I am going to continue to play with the Bullets and other teams throughout the world and at the highest level I am allowed to. Think of me what you like.

Pete "Mr.U"Utschig
LA Ironmen
Budapest Bullets

 

[Bolter]

Its a fact that you will not get better by playing teams that are below your standard. I would be very happy if my team could just enter into the NXL/NPPL/CPL (masacre or not) as this is the best place to learn and improve, and improve VERY quickly.

Back in the woodland days, as a young team, we constantly tried to find the tournies that had the likes of Shockwave, Shades of Grey etc to play against. The learning curve is massive, and its bloody good fun piting your wits against the best.

I was always told its only 7 guys, with 7 guns. The same as you. There is a reaction to every action, and no-one is unbeatable. Everyone can be shot. Its a matter of percentages. Increase yours, decrease theirs.

Its great to see the Americans in Europe. Always welcome in my book

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

Nick, you and I have been friends for a long time, but I dont understand how you could take my playing in the SPL as a personal insult and then attemp to insult me by saying that I have no self respect for myself.

Hi Pete

It is greatly appreciated that you take part in this debate, so that we get both sides of the story.

First of all - I did not try to insult you or Oliver - and I DO realise that yours is a special case, as you have been with the Bullets for a long time, and that you train with them regularly - you don't just show up for events.

The problem just is, that if we are discussing principles, we cannot make exceptions - because that is a slippery slope - which I am sure you understand?

What pisses me off, is all the teams that have hired top level Pros for this season - because those teams would be elsewhere in the rankings without them - and we both know that.

It does not help European paintball in any way, when second level teams can just hire themselves a couple of top level Pros (european or american - no difference) to win games for them.... and come on - in the format we are playing NOW, 2 top level players make a world of difference.

People would have just the same problem, if Max and Sebban went and played SPL for Ipnoz - this is not a US vs Euro issue - it is a question of keeping the competition fair.

My concern is, that teams that ought to stay in the SPL, because they have a good thing going with their roster, will get knocked out by teams that would themselves be relegated, had it not been because they hired world class players for the events.

You saw many of the same matches I saw - and you saw how quickly teams dropped their "real" rostered players in-game - and it was left to the Pros to save the game.

I understand how you take the issue personally - but for my part - it is not.... I want the Millennium Series to be a place for fair competition, and where teams focussed on developing their roster and evolving into a REAL team are rewarded.

The Bullets are such a team - and they would probably do just as well today without you two.... but if we are to change the rules, it has to apply to everyone - even if it would in fact not be fair to that one team.

Still friends?

Nick

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

Its a fact that you will not get better by playing teams that are below your standard. I would be very happy if my team could just enter into the NXL/NPPL/CPL (masacre or not) as this is the best place to learn and improve, and improve VERY quickly.

That's what training is for buddy - you can go play Nexus, Shock, Ducks, Disruption, Tigers, etc. all you want.

But, if you are in a league with promotion and relegation, you would like to have a fair shot in that league, rather than seeing teams skip 10-12 steps and just rent players to ensure they are not relegated.

Why do you think the MS transfer rules are in place? - if what you say is right - why even bother with transfer rules at all? - why not just say it is a free for all - in every division?

Nick

 

[MissyQ]

Bullets to me is a long term exception, although I see your point.

Who else was there?

How would Bullets qualify as an exception?

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

I think Beaks means that Oliver and Pete has been with the team for 4 years, go to Hungary and practice regularly, etc.

But, as I said earlier... unfortunately - if we are to make a rule on stuff like this, it has to apply across the board - unless someone can come up with an intelligent solution to this specific part of the problem.

Nick