XFactor to the NXL?

[Robbo]

Don't disagree on Rage having a good event. I do think it's bad form for the league to provide equipment promotion to some teams and not to other teams. If you win, the league should provide you the same treatment they provide to every other team that wins, regardless of who your sponsor is.

Missy does seem to portray identical behaviors differently depending on who is doing them. If XSV cheats, it's because XSV is the dirtiest team on the planet. But if Rage cheats, it didn't happen. (The truth is, pushing the referee's willingness to pull and penalize you appropriately is a strategy that works and one that both Rage and XSV (and seemingly most anybody else who plays at the Pro level) uses to it's fullest benefit.)

..glad you said most ......... but next season you can say 'all'

 

[Robbo]

It depends on what you mean by 'the best' - how many 'the best' teams are there? The only thing I was trying to point out is that Missy's argument that some of 'the best' teams are not in the NXL because they don't do well in NPPL isn't valid - the same holds true about NPPL teams that don't do well in the NXL.

There is no doubt that there are teams at the bottom of the NXL that would get killed by most of the NPPL teams, but there are also teams at the bottom of NPPL that would get killed by most of the NXL teams, so I'm not sure what exactly that illustrates. The same goes for teams at the top of NXL that are in the middle of the pack in NPPL - there are teams at the top of NPPL that are middle of the pack in NXL, or just don't play at all.

I do have to admit, however, to lacking some information: I don't know exactly who is playing on the NPPL teams. So it may be that teams are doing 'worse' in the other league just because they're not playing everyone.

Chicago, this ain't no Smacktalk here mate, you make any sort of mistake in reasoning or definition then your ass is gonna be pitilessly nailed to the wall which makes P8ntballer.com by far the best site to come to if you want a clear understanding of what makes paintball tick.
The moment you dragged this particular debate into the realms of defining 'best' is the moment you shoulda thrown the towel in ....


Ding ding, next point !

 

[Chicago]

I wasn't aiming for a particular definition, just a working number for the purposes of the conversation, but you're right.

So, back on-topic:

I'd still like to hear from Baca exactly what adding a 16th team does to cause any significant turmoil beyond there being one more team. Teams that play better than others are just as likely to place better than others. Maintaining illusions of consistency is not a luxary I think paintball can afford, especially when it seeems to be mainly for the sake of appearances.

 

[Baca Loco]

I'd still like to hear from Baca exactly what adding a 16th team does to cause any significant turmoil beyond there being one more team. Teams that play better than others are just as likely to place better than others. Maintaining illusions of consistency is not a luxary I think paintball can afford, especially when it seeems to be mainly for the sake of appearances.

What would be the point? I have stated my objections and principle reasons for them. You ignore that and instead wish to debate the operational logistics of 16 rather than 15 teams. I don't see any point in repeating myself so that you can continue to fail to grasp it's relevance and continue repeating your absolutely silly assertion that reducing the prelims by 25% has no bearing.

 

[Chicago]

What would be the point? I have stated my objections and principle reasons for them. You ignore that and instead wish to debate the operational logistics of 16 rather than 15 teams. I don't see any point in repeating myself so that you can continue to fail to grasp it's relevance and continue repeating your absolutely silly assertion that reducing the prelims by 25% has no bearing.

Bearing on what? Advancing the best teams to Sunday? It makes virtually no difference. Top 2 of 4 is well more than sufficient, and that's not opinion, that's math - even with totally RANDOM seeding, it's 9.3% vs 7.5% that a top-4 team doesn't make it out of prelims, and with seeding that difference becomes miniscule. Calling the assertion silly doesn't make it any less true.

If NXL was a full round robin prelims, would that be better? Clearly everyone playing 14 or 15 matches to figure out who advances to finals is a bit excessive, right? Would you also agree that 10 matches is excessive? I would imagine you would. And, mathmatically, 4 prelim matches is excessive. Playing 4 matches instead of three makes almost no difference in making sure your best (top 4) teams advance through a cut of 8. It also makes virtually no difference in the odds that a 7th or 8th place team gets to make the cut.

If you mean play time, you're right, there's less of it, but, at the Pro level, I would expect that a team is there to win, not to log more minutes on the field. In fact, for a PRO team, I'd expect a team to be out to win while spending the least money (including shooting paint) possible - thus more profit (or lower losses).

Now, if a team is just PRETENDING to be a Pro team, and their chief concern is how much play time you get, I'd suggest they may be in the wrong division.

 

[Chicago]

And for the love of god, can we please change the login timeout back to something longer than 5 minutes, like 60 minutes?

 

[MissyQ]

Is there any point arguing with Chicago? He revels in being wrong, and once you point out his glaring errors and swiss-cheese-style argument, he lowers the tone by making ridiculous and scandalous accusations of bias without a shred of substantiation. In short - he's a cocksucker of the highest order.

I think he actually tries to be controversial, because he wants to be like the Loco, but he lacks the data, the insight and the intellect to carry it off. The idea of a conspiracy theory is that it can't be immediately disproved. Both TJ and Jeff were able to put out your little fire with one line Chicago. You're a joke. For the last time, if you get into it on here with people who actually know what they are talking about, and have witnessed the events you have not witnessed (but still have a twatty opinion on) then you are going to look stupid. Talk about things you know about. That should free up the board quite a bit.

Chicago, I hope we meet again soon, as I have every intention of dishing out one of my trademark fore-arm smashes to your neck. Missy's gonna bring the pain. You'll be feeling the shockwaves well into your old age.

This is the only sensible thing you have posted in this thread:

"I do have to admit, however, to lacking some information"

This is uncharacteristicly honest for you.


ps. You really suck, man, I mean in a serious way...

 

[Robbo]

I wasn't aiming for a particular definition, just a working number for the purposes of the conversation, but you're right.
.

.....if only Brockdorff could learn such insightful humility

 

[MissyQ]

Are you implying that Rage didn't cheat in Boston? Cause that's just laughably funny. (Not to single out Rage in this case, as I'd find it laughably funny were you to say any of the pro teams, in the finals at least, didn't cheat at least a little bit.)



I think you ignore a team's entire history in favor of only looking at their most recent performance when you sponsor them and doing so suits your publicity purposes, like their best performance ever happening to coincide with using your newest product release. You also didn't have any qualms labelling XSV one of the dirtiest teams in paintball apparently based on a particular situation where XSV was able to flaunt the rules to an advantage over Rage.

I can't help but notice the front-page Boston event coverage on the NPPL site heavily highlights the WDP-sponsored team, their platinum sponsor, and their platinum sponsor's new marker. Now, I don't religiously read the NPPL website, so maybe I'm off base here, but has there been similar detailed coverage of XSV's markers after each of the events they won this year?

The cynic might question why a team whose performance has been inconsistent at best (a 4th and a 12th place finish), at the event where they pick up the newest product from their sponsor who just happens to also run the league they are playing in, find themselves in the finals while the two powerhouse teams that have been consistently placing 1-2 both somehow manage to not get out of separate prelim brackets.


Rage was just barely a Pro team before this year. They're better this year, but to consider them one of the best teams on the planet is going to take a little more than winning an event where two of the best teams on the planet miss the cut and finishing 4th and 12th in the two other events of the season.

I tried to let this go, but no, you need straightening out sunshine.

firstly, there has been similar stories on on the NPPL website on XSV when they have won events, same with Dynasty. As you have been told, WDP are Platinum, which gives them more options. They are also highly organised when it comes to promotion, and like any sharp manufacturer, they have been able to make the most of the success of their team and their product. Of course, you already said that you don't go to the site often, so this whole point is ridiculous.

I am not saying that anyone in particular cheated or didn't cheat. I have not heard the horror stories that came with the last 2 results, and I know for a fact that the reffing was considerably better in Boston. If the reffing was better (an ongoing team census so far backs this up) AND Rage did better, then your point makes no sense. It only works for you if Rage had done worse with better reffing, unless you are implying that WDP fixed the result, in which case write that (you won't, because this is too ridiculous even for you.)

Your point above that starts with 'the Cynic" is straight up dangerously stupid. Dynasty and XSV got beat, by quite a few teams, and that is why they didn't make it. If you want to say there is another reason they didn't make it then make that reason clear. You won't, because you can't ever back up what you say. You know why that is? It's because you suck.

As for Rage as a team, since they changed their roster last year, keeping only 2 of the previous players, including the owner, I think it is fair to say that they are now a top 6 NPPL team, and that their reputation should be allowed to depart with the players that earned it. Since San Diego last year thay have had 3 finals placings out of 5 events, and have narrowly missed the finals in one other event. They are 3rd in the league standings and people that have been watching them play know that they are in the acsendancy. People who have not seen them play don't have the information they need to pass a sensible comment. You are among those.

 

[Baca Loco]

1--Bearing on what? Advancing the best teams to Sunday? It makes virtually no difference. Top 2 of 4 is well more than sufficient, and that's not opinion, that's math - even with totally RANDOM seeding, it's 9.3% vs 7.5% that a top-4 team doesn't make it out of prelims, and with seeding that difference becomes miniscule. Calling the assertion silly doesn't make it any less true.

2--If NXL was a full round robin prelims, would that be better?
2A--Clearly everyone playing 14 or 15 matches to figure out who advances to finals is a bit excessive, right? Would you also agree that 10 matches is excessive?
2B--I would imagine you would.
2C--And, mathmatically, 4 prelim matches is excessive. Playing 4 matches instead of three makes almost no difference in making sure your best (top 4) teams advance through a cut of 8. It also makes virtually no difference in the odds that a 7th or 8th place team gets to make the cut.

3--If you mean play time, you're right, there's less of it, but, at the Pro level, I would expect that a team is there to win, not to log more minutes on the field. In fact, for a PRO team, I'd expect a team to be out to win while spending the least money (including shooting paint) possible - thus more profit (or lower losses).

4--Now, if a team is just PRETENDING to be a Pro team, and their chief concern is how much play time you get, I'd suggest they may be in the wrong division.

1--perhaps you could simply pull out your trusty calculator and come up with the likeliest result and we can save real money by avoiding the plane fares, hotels, rentals and all the rest.
2--yes, of course it would but that's unfortunately not practicable.
2A--No, it makes perfect sense but the time and means don't currently exist given the Xball format and time commitment.
2B--Your imagination is apparently severely stunted.
2C--no, it isn't because you are conveniently leaving out how those 8 teams acquire their position and given the way advancement out of the prelim brackets is currently calculated 4 is serviceable but hardly ideal and 3 games to determine the relative merit of 4 teams is sadly inadequate.
3--your expectations of a Pro team are completely inconsequential given you know absolutely nothing about them other than what your calculator tells you and, frankly, it's this sort of quasi definitive-type statement that gets you in trouble with some of the other forum members here and diminishes your credibility in other areas.
4--this is, by my recollection, the second time you've made this kind of remark (in this thread) and I can't for the life of me understand why unless it's supposed to be some sort of veiled slight or subtle condescension. If so it's well off the mark and isn't scoring you any points. And if, by some delusional hubris, you imagine it reinforces your argument (such as it is) well, you're mistaken about that too.