X-ball/NPPL Super 7/Millennium - where do we stand ?

[KEN@AFGM]

Question for Niall

Ok Niall hows it going?

A quick question.
Hyperthetically speaking if X ball makes it across the pond and the millenium showcases a few tournies, the organisers going to have to at least cover his costs right? Ok so i don't know what the X ball teams will have to pay to play cus frankly i don't care. Basically what i really mean is that will the ordinary 7 man tourney entry fee's go up cus you need to cover the cost of X ball?

Is it likely that joe public is going to have to pay more to play at the big events? Who gets to make these decsions at the end of the day niall? I mean you ran a class tourney at campaign. You could have screwed the public over and you didn't.(Nice one guv!) But if the pro teams in europe are leaning on you to front an X ball tourney and it gonna cost way more than they put in are we smaller people go to have to pay to watch these events?

Anyone else got any thoughts on this?

 

[Magued]

Nicky!

If you read my post I said that Joy is supporting the super 7, but have never said absolutly no to x-ball. I belive i wrote something like it depends on the offer. And what ever the Millenium is doing the same thing will be done in Stockholm, it doesnt matter if Joy participate or not.

And as the super 7 is heavily sponsored by WDP, Joy will offcourse do everything to support it. Its no secret.

Magued

 

[NIALL]

Nick

Firstly hello Stranger, Do you seriously think that there are the people with the money to pay for the franchises in Europe.. If you do you are very much mistaken. The first year , if it happens will be a trial run to see if it works the players like it etc it.

Millhouse.

There is no way that you will subsidize the X Ball. It has to be self sufficient .

Magued

Get a hair cut ..

 

[raehl]

Well, I'll weigh in here...

On the X Ball front, anyone is free to play X Ball within a limited set of conditions, which are basically that you don't mess with the rules, you use the (tm) symbol when you use the name, and you credit Procaps for the format.

You only need to buy a franchise if you're competing in the Pro X Ball league stateside - it's the LEAGUE you're buying into, not the format. Whether other leagues want a franchise structure as well or an entry fee structure is up to them. The two big reasons for a franchise structure are to get some capital (the scoring system as seen at IAO/World Cup is EXPENSIVE) and to make sure your teams are committed for the whole season - since the whole year counts, you don't want people not showing up for events at the end of the season and messing with your scoring.

Costwise, 10k pounds sounds about right per team for running in parrallel with an existing event for facilities, reffing, paint, etc, including a more modest scoreboard system than the one used at World Cup/IAO. That doesn't include travel or any sponsorship. Obviously there's a lot of discretion there - how much promotion? Do you want a special stand-alone finals at the end of the season? How many matches per "event"? But could you do it for 10k pounds? No doubt.


As for S7/PSP, personally, I think my team will probably play both Chicago events, and one or both FL events. We're a team whose decisions are primarily made by geography. If we do HAVE to choose one league, it'll probably be S7, for the very simple reason that we only have 8 guys right now - so maybe phrasing that as a choice is a bit misleading.

- Chris

 

[rancid]

Well, I'll weigh in here...

Originally posted by raehl
On the X Ball front, anyone is free to play X Ball within a limited set of conditions, which are basically that you don't mess with the rules, you use the (tm) symbol when you use the name, and you credit Procaps for the format.

You only need to buy a franchise if you're competing in the Pro X Ball league stateside - it's the LEAGUE you're buying into, not the format. Whether other leagues want a franchise structure as well or an entry fee structure is up to them. The two big reasons for a franchise structure are to get some capital (the scoring system as seen at IAO/World Cup is EXPENSIVE) and to make sure your teams are committed for the whole season - since the whole year counts, you don't want people not showing up for events at the end of the season and messing with your scoring.

Costwise, 10k pounds sounds about right per team for running in parrallel with an existing event for facilities, reffing, paint, etc, including a more modest scoreboard system than the one used at World Cup/IAO. That doesn't include travel or any sponsorship. Obviously there's a lot of discretion there - how much promotion? Do you want a special stand-alone finals at the end of the season? How many matches per "event"? But could you do it for 10k pounds? No doubt.


As for S7/PSP, personally, I think my team will probably play both Chicago events, and one or both FL events. We're a team whose decisions are primarily made by geography. If we do HAVE to choose one league, it'll probably be S7, for the very simple reason that we only have 8 guys right now - so maybe phrasing that as a choice is a bit misleading.

- Chris

Fact is no one will play x-ball (or at least buy a franchise) without the prospect of a divvy in the end (ie payback) and the only place that will come from is TV.... and where's TV?

Playing x-ball as a trial in Europe beggars the question 'trial for what'? No promoter can make money out of it, and therefore the teams pay extra to play a format that is essentially elitist, limited and with no future. Well, I reckon they'll pay/play once, and once only.

I'm glad you've come forth on the issue Niall - and it seems you've changed your mind on the likelihood?

Chris, I know you've had run ins with people on this site, can I just stick in an observation: what you say is fair enough and argued passionately and that's great, but sometimes you slip into preaching, and preaching comes hand-in-hand with condescension.... and I think that's where you come unstuck. Personally, I think you make a worthy contribution to these boards, but I'd just consider your phrasing before you press the submit button.

 

[raehl]

heh..

I'm not preaching. I'm just more enlightened than the rest of you. (yes, that was said with sarcasm)

I do usually rewrite posts, and I've admittedly been slacking a bit on that recently due to a lot of other responsibilities.


As for X Ball, it isn't more expensive. A season of X Ball should not cost more (on a per-player basis) than a 7-man season, if you play X Ball the way it was meant to be played.


- Chris

 

[rancid]

heh..

Originally posted by raehl

As for X Ball, it isn't more expensive. A season of X Ball should not cost more (on a per-player basis) than a 7-man season, if you play X Ball the way it was meant to be played.


- Chris

But if the promoter doesn't make money out of the format, how can it exist without subsidy?

 

[Liz]

Actually, I can see a few ways X-Ball will cost more to play. You've been working on the assumption that 1 X-Ball game uses around the same amount of paint as a normal tourney day, & that travel & entry will be the same whatever format you play. But entry is likely to be an awful lot more for the smaller scale tournaments.
I'll go on the assumption that the site has 4 fields available. Cost of using the site was split between 40 teams, now split between 8. Cost of marshalls was split between 10 teams per field, now split between 2 - and from what I've seen, X-Ball probably needs more marshalls per field. There are various other costs covered by the tourney fee that are sure to be more per team as well.

So, though paint & travel will cost the same the entry fee would, in the scenario above, potentially be 5 times as much. That's an awful big increase; i know that would make my entry fee lots more than my typical paint & travel costs combined.

 

[NIALL]

Rancid,

I don't think I've changed my mind, its I think maybe the dust has started to settle now. The exitement of X Ball is a memory and maybe people have started to look at it with realism. If they want X Ball we'll do it.

Niall

 

[Robbo]

In its present proposed format and even allowing for the nominal sum of 10 grand start up monies to be error banded at plus or minus 50%, it ain't gonna happen.....period !!!

Hmmmmmmmm, people ain't thought this thru

Robbo