Will Mag's get fully banned in the UK

[Collier]

PLEASE READ THIS CHRONOGRAPH PROCEDURE CAREFULLY
BEFORE USING YOUR AUTOMAG RT™!!!

The AUTOMAG RT has a new, fast recharging regulator not found on any other paintball marker. There are certain characteristics that you should understand about this regulator before you chronograph your RT.

The RT's regulator recharges so quickly (up to five times faster than the 68AUTOMAG) that friction heats up the compressed air molecules filling the chamber. The temperature in the air chamber can get as high as 180 degrees and can make the front of the gun warm after a string of shots. It is important to understand that when the air chamber is filled with hot air under pressure, it cools off rapidly over several seconds. This cooling will reduce both the chamber pressure and the velocity.

If you fire the RT while the air chamber is hot (high pressure) your velocity will be higher. If you wait, the air chamber will cool and velocity will drop noticeably. The faster you fire your RT the more consistent your velocity will be.

QUICK SETUP AND CHRONOGRAPH PROCEDURE FOR YOUR AUTOMAG RT
Set the pressure going into the RT to 700 psi.
To record your highest rapid fire velocity:-
Fire a paintball and hold the trigger back.
Then release the trigger completely, and fire the next paintball as quickly as possible, once again holding the trigger back.
Repeat as necessary.
This procedure will simulate rapid fire, thus recording your highest possible rapid fire velocity.

PLEASE NOTE: The AUTOMAG RT is sensitive to differences in trigger release, so always attempt to be consistent with your trigger finger!

FURTHER DETAILS ABOUT SETUP AND CHRONOGRAPH PROCEDURE
The AUTOMAG RT, like any manufactured product, will vary a bit from one RT to the next. Our testing shows that the best input pressure for each RT will be somewhere between 650 and 750 psi. This is why we recommend 700 psi as a starting input pressure.

Higher input pressures will make the trigger more reactive, but the velocity will drop off more when fired slowly.

Lower input pressures will reduce the reactive trigger and may cause slight shoot down on rapid fire, but the RT will be more consistent over the chronograph when fired slowly.


sincerely,
Tom Kaye
President, Airgun Designs

This same chrono procedure exists for the e/xmag, thats what I base my opinion on!

Gaf, I'm not talking about trigger bounce/runaway mode here mate, I'm talking about shoot up!

Paul.

 

[dnafwtbtitft]

So many rumours and so much bull**** about how gun's work and who is cheating one way or another.

Without proof how do so many people know what they claim they know?

 

[Collier]

Originally posted by dnafwtbtitft
So many rumours and so much bull**** about how gun's work and who is cheating one way or another.

Without proof how do so many people know what they claim they know?

Let me just make it clear as I think there seems to be some confusuion I do NOT want to see mags banned.
The question I asked about the software and shootup was a legit question not an attept to stir.
Clearly there is a problem the level 10 equipped mags require a high imput pressure to work reliably and to full effect, with a high input pressure when the marker is on hybrid or manual mode there is a chance of 'runaway', one way to stop this is to remove the trigger rod, lock the marker in e mode or turn the pressure down. However one of the characteristics of the Valve is that it will shoot up during quick strings. So to chronograph AGD developed the technique I've posted above, but that requires the trigger rod to be present. A dilly of a pickle for sure!!

None of the above is bull$hit how a big of a problem it is well thats a different question.

Paul

 

[manike]

My X-mag and RT with level 10 didn't need any higher input pressure than I ran them previouly they just needed the velcoity screw wound in further. I still ran them at around 650-700psi input. I don't see the problem you alude to Paul if a gun is set up properly but anyway...

Also with that chrono procedure it doesn't say how much the velocity will go up though does it?

Do you know what the velocity does on other guns under rapid fire? If you do, how do you know?

You know you can get a similar effect with poppet style valves if you set them up a certain way... such that under higher rates of fire in some guns the velocity doesn't drop off, but actually goes up... and no I won't tell you how to do it .

We know about it with the RT because Tom had the ability to test his products and made the decision to be honest and open about it, very few others have or can be bothered to do that. He shouldn't be penalised for it.

I tested my RT's and my X-mag, the most I ever got any of my RT valves that I own to climb under rapid strings was only about 6fps... heck most other guns aren't even consistant enough to notice that much of a climb, and unless you are chronoing at a consistant 295 fps it isn't going to make the gun illegal in use either. My X-mag wouldn't climb at all, it just shot nice and consistantly. With the lower input pressure on my X-mag it would actually shoot at a lower velocity if chrono'd the way outlined in Paul's post...

How do you know other guns aren't climbing under rapid fire? Prove your's isn't before slinging mud elsewhere (that goes to everyone and not one person in particular and to several gun design out there right now...) There are only a few chrono's that can check these things and the results can be quite interesting.

There is so much crap about ramping dwells in guns. Most of it is jealous rubbish. With most gun's getting the shot cycle time down is very important to achieving high rates of fire. With my timmy I notice a significant change in being able to bring my dwell DOWN by 1-2ms in terms of the ease of achieveing a higher rof. The last thing I would want is my dwell to ramp up... especially since I don't get any drop off with a consistant dwell all it would do is screw with my accuracy, if it worked that is.

If you start ramping up your dwell you affect your rof. What do you notice about most of the top teams (and those accused of such things?) what's that,?... that they have very fast guns? oh yes... wouldn't be possible if all this BS about ramping dwell was true.

 

[Collier]

How can I be accused of mud slinging when all I've done is mention facts which the manufacturer themself admits??

Its not a problem to me I don't shoot one ahh sod it I'm done here, you ask a simple question and get accused of alteria motives etc etc.... Bollocks!

Paul

 

[manike]

Re-read what I said Paul, I wasn't accusing you of mud slinging. My statements were general and aimed at everyone.

Lots of people talking about guns doing things in this thread and they have no evidence to back the rumours they are saying.

 

[Collier]

Originally posted by manike
Re-read what I said Paul, I wasn't accusing you of mud slinging. My statements were general and aimed at everyone.

If they were aimed at everyone then I have to include myself do I not?

Besides I've spat my dummy out and I'll be damned if I'm gonna go and pick it up....

Paul

 

[manike]

For instance I can take a certain make of gun with certain chip inside it and if I let it stand without shooting it for a few seconds the first shot will always be hot. And not just a little bit hot either, but nasty hot!

If you are allowed a clearing shot, then you are going on field with a gun that can potentially shoot 320 easily (or more in some cases) if you haven't fired it for a period of time. (Seen and done it myself). And no I'm not talking about a mag with a dodgy reg seat, I'm talking about a currently very popular gun...

I can also make cocker's and angels (and I expect vikings and excals with the same work) shoot hotter when shooting faster...

Now some people will have these types of guns and they won't go faster with velocity under rapid fire. Some will have them where they do (in some cases it is just the luck of how you set your gun up!). But I doubt the manufacturers have tested them like this or intend to release that it can happen even if they have.

Maybe Tom made a mistake pointing out a potential problem? (which may or may not happen under given circumstances).

My question is how do people know what ANY of these guns are doing as they are used? The average person doesn't even and can't even tell what the RT is doing or any other guns.

 

[Fleisher]

Originally posted by Paul_collier
How does the new software control shootup? I thought that was a characteristic of the valve?

Paul

The software doesn't,correct input pressure does.

Anyway show me a marker that can't be messed with in some way and I'll buy it...anything for a quite life

 

[Philip]

Originally posted by Fleisher
The software doesn't,correct input pressure does.

Anyway show me a marker that can't be messed with in some way and I'll buy it...anything for a quite life

There....good luck